{"id":2144642,"date":"2026-01-22T14:25:00","date_gmt":"2026-01-22T19:25:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/?p=2144642&#038;post_type=podcast&#038;preview_id=2144642"},"modified":"2026-01-23T18:06:32","modified_gmt":"2026-01-23T23:06:32","slug":"what-the-health-430-congress-hhs-funding-health-policy-bill-january-22-2026","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/podcast\/what-the-health-430-congress-hhs-funding-health-policy-bill-january-22-2026\/","title":{"rendered":"What the Health? From KFF Health News: Health Spending Is Moving in Congress"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"block--iframe\">\n\t<iframe\n\t\tallow=\"fullscreen\"\n\t\tframeborder=\"0\"\n\t\theight=\"188\"\n\t\tsrc=\"https:\/\/play.prx.org\/e?ge=prx_14448_cb32a1ad-7539-4f21-a79d-435737d2e6b1&#038;uf=https%3A%2F%2Fwhatthehealth.feeds.wamu.org\"\n\t\twidth=\"100%\"\n\t><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tThe Host\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container single\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg 1100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Julie Rovner<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">KFF Health News<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" title=\"@jrovner\">\n\t\t\t\t@jrovner\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" title=\"@julierovner.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@julierovner.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/author\/julie-rovner\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Julie&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\tJulie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of KFF Health News\u2019 weekly health policy news podcast, &quot;What the Health?&quot; A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book &quot;Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z,&quot; now in its third edition.\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Congress appears ready to approve a spending bill for the Department of Health and Human Services for the first time in years \u2014 minus the dramatic cuts proposed by the Trump administration. Lawmakers are also nearing passage of a health measure, including new rules for prescription drug middlemen known as pharmacy benefit managers, that has been delayed for more than a year after complaints from Elon Musk, who at the time was preparing to join the incoming Trump administration.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, Congress seems less enthusiastic about the health policy outline released by President Donald Trump last week, which includes a handful of proposals that lawmakers have rejected in the past.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This week\u2019s panelists are Julie Rovner of KFF Health News, Sandhya Raman of CQ Roll Call, Sheryl Gay Stolberg of The New York Times, and Paige Winfield Cunningham of The Washington Post.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tPanelists\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container threewide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png 683w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Raman_683sq.png?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Sandhya Raman<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">CQ Roll Call<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/SandhyaWrites\" title=\"@SandhyaWrites\">\n\t\t\t\t@SandhyaWrites\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/sandhyawrites.bsky.social\" title=\"@sandhyawrites.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@sandhyawrites.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/rollcall.com\/author\/sandhya-raman\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Sandhya&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Stolberg_768sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Sheryl Gay Stolberg<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">The New York Times<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/SherylNYT\" title=\"@SherylNYT\">\n\t\t\t\t@SherylNYT\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/by\/sheryl-gay-stolberg\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Sheryl&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg 1100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/10\/winfield-cunningham2025_1100sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Paige Winfield Cunningham<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">The Washington Post<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/pw_cunningham\" title=\"@pw_cunningham\">\n\t\t\t\t@pw_cunningham\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Paige&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Among the takeaways from this week\u2019s episode:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Congress is on track to pass a new appropriations bill for HHS, with the current, short-term funding set to expire next week. The bill includes a slight bump for some agencies and, notably, does not include deep cuts requested by Trump. But with the administration\u2019s demonstrated willingness to ignore congressionally mandated spending, the question stands: Will Trump follow Congress\u2019 instructions about how to spend the money?<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>A health package with bipartisan support is set to hitch a ride with the spending bill, after falling by the wayside in late 2024 under pressure from then-Trump adviser Musk. However, the president\u2019s newly released list of health priorities largely isn\u2019t reflected in the package. The GOP faces headwinds in the midterms after allowing expanded Affordable Care Act premium tax credits to expire, a change that\u2019s expected to cost many Americans their health insurance.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>One year into the second Trump administration, its policies are particularly evident in the political takeover of the nation\u2019s public health infrastructure, the growing number of uninsured Americans, and creeping brain drain in U.S.-based scientific research.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>And Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has fired members of a panel overseeing the federal government\u2019s vaccine injury compensation program. Kennedy is expected to remake the panel in an effort to expand the list of injuries for which the government will compensate Americans. The current list does not include autism.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Also this week, Rovner interviews oncologist and bioethicist Ezekiel Emanuel to discuss his new book, <em>Eat Your Ice Cream: Six Simple Rules for a Long and Healthy Life<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And KFF Health News\u2019 annual Health Policy Valentines contest is now open. <a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/health-policy-valentines-annual-contest\/\">You can enter the contest here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n<div\n\tclass=\"wp-block block--newsletter  \"\n\tdata-type=\"kaiser-health-news\/newsletter\"\n\tdata-align=\"center\"\n\tstyle=\"\"\n>\n\t<h4 class=\"newsletter__title\">\n\t\t<a href=\"\/email\/\">\n\t\t\tEmail Sign-Up\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/h4>\n\t<p class=\"newsletter__description\">\n\t\tSubscribe to KFF Health News&#039; free Morning Briefing.\t<\/p>\n\t\n<form\n\taction=\"\/email-signup\/\"\n\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form\"\n\tmethod=\"post\"\n>\n\t<input type=\"hidden\" id=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" name=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" value=\"87a489a56a\" \/><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"_wp_http_referer\" value=\"\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/2144642\" \/>\t\t\t\t<label\n\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__label--email\"\n\t\tfor=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t>\n\t\t<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">\n\t\t\tYour Email Address\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<input\n\t\t\tautocomplete=\"email\"\n\t\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__input--email\"\n\t\t\tid=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t\t\tname=\"kaiser_hubspot_email\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"email\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tplaceholder=\"Your email address\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t<\/label>\n\t<button class=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__submit\">\n\t\tSign Up\t<\/button>\n<\/form>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Plus, for \u201cextra credit\u201d the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong> CIDRAP\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.cidrap.umn.edu\/influenza-general\/minnesota-residents-delay-medical-care-fear-encountering-ice\">Minnesota Residents Delay Medical Care for Fear of Encountering ICE<\/a>,\u201d by Liz Szabo.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sheryl Gay Stolberg:<\/strong> Rolling Stone\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/politics\/politics-news\/danish-vaccine-study-emails-hhs-rfk-jr-1235498456\/?_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_u0-q7nHxATjgKn6gWaFn7UIMBxH-Ei1DfofTutgv778wLzFyWFd9v3biAOUNDr6oK1MVQcLZgWKTZBzObKJp30SUBzw&amp;_hsmi=399255450\">HHS Gave a $1.6 Million Grant to a Controversial Vaccine Study. These Emails Show How That Happened<\/a>,\u201d by Katherine Eban.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Paige Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong> Politico\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/01\/19\/rfk-lawyers-plaintiffs-tort-trial-bar-00735148\">RFK Jr. Is Bringing the GOP and the Trial Bar Together<\/a>,\u201d by Amanda Chu.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sandhya Raman: <\/strong>Popular Information\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/popular.info\/p\/ice-has-stopped-paying-for-detainee\">ICE Has Stopped Paying for Detainee Medical Treatment<\/a>,\u201d by Judd Legum.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<section class=\"block--expandable has-label\"\n\t\t\tid=\"podcast-expandable\"\n\t>\n\t\t\t<input type=\"checkbox\" name=\"expandable-radio\" id=\"transcript-health-spending-is-moving-in-congress\">\n\t\t<label class=\"expandable__title-label\" for=\"transcript-health-spending-is-moving-in-congress\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__label  \"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"background-color: #cb1919;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\tclick to open the transcript\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__title\"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"font-size: 36px;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\tTranscript: Health Spending Is Moving in Congress\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content--container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<p><em>[<\/em><strong><em>Editor\u2019s note:<\/em><\/strong><em>&nbsp;This transcript&nbsp;was generated&nbsp;using transcription software. It has&nbsp;been edited&nbsp;for style and clarity.]<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello from&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;News and WAMU&nbsp;public radio&nbsp;in Washington, D.C. Welcome to&nbsp;<em>What&nbsp;the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;Julie Rovner,&nbsp;chief Washington correspondent for&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;News, and&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;joined by&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the best and smartest health reporters in Washington.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;taping this week on Thursday, Jan.&nbsp;22,&nbsp;at 10&nbsp;a.m.&nbsp;As always, news happens&nbsp;fast&nbsp;and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So,&nbsp;here we go.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today&nbsp;we&nbsp;are joined&nbsp;via videoconference by&nbsp;Sandhya Raman&nbsp;of CQ&nbsp;Roll&nbsp;Call.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sandhya Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Good morning,&nbsp;everyone.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Sheryl Gay Stolberg&nbsp;of The New York Times.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sheryl Gay Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello,&nbsp;Julie. Glad to be here.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And Paige Winfield Cunningham&nbsp;of&nbsp;The Washington Post.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Paige Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hey,&nbsp;Julie.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Later in this episode,&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;have my interview with Dr.&nbsp;Ezekiel Emanuel, whose new book,&nbsp;<em>Eat&nbsp;Your&nbsp;Ice&nbsp;Cream<\/em>,&nbsp;is both a takedown of the wellness industrial complex and a kinder, gentler way to live a more pleasant and meaningful life. But first, this week\u2019s news.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, and I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;want to jinx&nbsp;this,&nbsp;it looks like Congress might pass a spending bill for the Department of Health and Human Services that will become law&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;meaning not a continuing resolution&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;for the first time in years. And attached to that spending bill,&nbsp;scheduled for a vote in the House today,&nbsp;is&nbsp;a compromise health extenders&nbsp;deal that&nbsp;was dropped&nbsp;from the final spending bill in 2024 and which&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;talk about in a minute. But first,&nbsp;the HHS appropriations bill. Sandhya, what are&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the highlights?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think overall we&nbsp;just see&nbsp;a little bit of a slight increase for HHS compared to last year.&nbsp;Some&nbsp;agencies get a little bit of a bump:&nbsp;NIH&nbsp;[the National Institutes of Health],&nbsp;SAMHSA&nbsp;[the Substance Abuse and&nbsp;Mental Health Services Administration], HRSA&nbsp;[the Health Resources and Services Administration],&nbsp;Administration for&nbsp;Community&nbsp;Living. CDC&nbsp;[the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention]&nbsp;is&nbsp;kind of&nbsp;the&nbsp;same as last year. But then we do see&nbsp;some&nbsp;cuts in&nbsp;some&nbsp;places. Something that was&nbsp;getting watched&nbsp;a little bit was refugee and entrant&nbsp;assistance, given&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the&nbsp;different national news related to refugees and immigrants, and so&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;getting cut&nbsp;by about a billion. And&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the back-and-forth there is,&nbsp;some&nbsp;conservatives wanted more than that,&nbsp;some&nbsp;Democrats&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;want that to&nbsp;be cut. I think the&nbsp;big thing&nbsp;in health&nbsp;care that we were waiting on&nbsp;on&nbsp;this was&nbsp;whether or not&nbsp;they would prohibit NIH forward funding, which is something the administration has been pushing for,&nbsp;just giving out a lump sum for grants through NIH rather than over a multiyear period. And the concern the Democrats had on that was that if&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;doing the lump sum all at first, fewer groups would get money for research. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;there is a prohibition on that, on doing the forward funding.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;But just to be clear,&nbsp;the&nbsp;president, the administration, had asked for deep, deep cuts&nbsp;to&nbsp;the Department of Health and Human Services, and Congress is&nbsp;basically saying:&nbsp;Yep. Nope.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. I think even if you look at what the&nbsp;House had proposed last year, they had&nbsp;cut&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;programs, or proposed to cut&nbsp;a lot of,&nbsp;and that was not there. I think a lot of times, what we\u2019ve seen is that&nbsp;even in Trump&nbsp;1, there\u2019d be a lot more proposed cuts in their proposal, when the White House puts out their blueprint, and then&nbsp;Congress comes to more of a medium point, kind of similar to previous years.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think that&nbsp;was something that&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;the health groups had celebrated, that they weren\u2019t going to get the steep cuts that they thought could be&nbsp;part of the process.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Of course, the big question here is:&nbsp;Does the administration&nbsp;actually spend&nbsp;this money?&nbsp;We saw in 2025 them refusing to spend money, cutting grants, cutting&nbsp;off entire universities. And this is money that Congress had&nbsp;appropriated&nbsp;and that the administration is supposed to spend. Are they going to do it this time, is Congress? Have they put anything in this bill to ensure that the administration is going to do it this time?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a little bit here and there on&nbsp;some of&nbsp;that. I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;think&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;quite the sweeping things that&nbsp;some&nbsp;Democrats would have wanted to prevent&nbsp;some of&nbsp;that.&nbsp;Just last week, we had the back-and-forth with SAMHSA grants&nbsp;getting pulled&nbsp;and then unpulled. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a little language related to&nbsp;that in&nbsp;there, just because that was such a big 24-hour issue. And then education funding&nbsp;is coupled&nbsp;with HHS,&nbsp;and&nbsp;there&nbsp;there&nbsp;is specific language saying you&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;transfer the money that would be for education into another department to dismantle it.&nbsp;So\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And,&nbsp;I would say,&nbsp;and basically, you&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;cut the Department of Education unless Congress says you can.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;So&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;some&nbsp;things in there that are like that, but to get appropriations done, it&nbsp;has to&nbsp;be a bipartisan thing to get that to the finish line.&nbsp;So&nbsp;no one is going to get everything they wanted, not even President&nbsp;[Donald]&nbsp;Trump.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes, and I will point out that they are not there yet.&nbsp;The&nbsp;House&nbsp;has to&nbsp;pass this.&nbsp;The Senate&nbsp;has to&nbsp;pass this&nbsp;when they come back next week.&nbsp;We\u2019ve&nbsp;got, apparently, a&nbsp;gigantic snowstorm coming towards Washington, D.C.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;moving in the right direction, but&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not there yet. All right. Now onto the health package&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;catching a ride on&nbsp;this spending bill.&nbsp;What\u2019s&nbsp;in it?&nbsp;And how close is it to the package that&nbsp;got stripped&nbsp;from the 2024 bill after Elon Musk tweeted that the bill was too many pages long?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;I think it\u2019s&nbsp;fairly similar.&nbsp;We have a lot of the same PBM&nbsp;[pharmacy benefit manager]&nbsp;language that we had when that got dismantled, and a lot of these same kind of extenders that we see from time to time&nbsp;whenever we get an appropriations deal, extending things that are pretty bipartisan but just never have a place to ride elsewhere&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;National Health Service&nbsp;Corps,&nbsp;Special Diabetes Program, things like that. I think that&nbsp;since this time we haven\u2019t had that pushback, we don\u2019t have Elon Musk weighing in and kind of pulling the strings in the way that we did before,&nbsp;these have been very bipartisan provisions that&nbsp;both chambers have been&nbsp;saying that they want to get this done, they want to get this done as soon as possible, even in the beginning of last year.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;sense that&nbsp;something\u2019s&nbsp;really going to derail&nbsp;language targeting&nbsp;PBMs&nbsp;and stuff like that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I would say the big piece of this is the deal that Congress came up with in 2024&nbsp;to require more transparency on the part of these pharmacy benefit managers that everybody on both sides is accusing of&nbsp;pocketing some of the savings that they\u2019re getting from drug companies and therefore making drug prices more expensive for employers and consumers.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think that this has been such a priority that this is their shot to get it done. And it seems like as long as nothing derails appropriations in the next day and a half, then this is their chance to do that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;not in either of these packages are&nbsp;most of&nbsp;the pieces of the legislation that President Trump called for last week in his self-titled&nbsp;Great&nbsp;Healthcare&nbsp;Plan, with the PBM provisions being a major exception. What else&nbsp;is in&nbsp;Trump\u2019s plan?&nbsp;And what are the prospects for passing it in&nbsp;pretty much any&nbsp;form this year?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;I would&nbsp;say&nbsp;not great.&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;A&nbsp;couple of things that struck me about this plan, which I would note was one page long:&nbsp;This is very Trumpy. Trump obviously&nbsp;loves,&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more into hauling pharmaceutical CEOs into the White House to make deals than he is crafting detailed policy.&nbsp;Because if you\u2019re&nbsp;actually trying&nbsp;to do health care reform, this is not the way that you would do it.&nbsp;What you would do is&nbsp;actually spend&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;time on the Hill seeing what Republicans can sign onto, and&nbsp;working&nbsp;with staff to&nbsp;craft detailed policies&nbsp;and&nbsp;etc.,&nbsp;etc.&nbsp;But,&nbsp;yeah, so&nbsp;most of&nbsp;this stuff&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;yet I guess another&nbsp;big thing&nbsp;that struck me was&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;this&nbsp;actually goes&nbsp;after insurers. There are&nbsp;some&nbsp;things in here that drugmakers&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;like, but&nbsp;Trump goes&nbsp;so far as&nbsp;to propose&nbsp;bypassing insurers entirely and sending money to people. And of course he&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;detail&nbsp;how that would work.&nbsp;And then&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;stuff in&nbsp;here about transparency by insurers.&nbsp;I would&nbsp;note&nbsp;the Affordable Care Act had&nbsp;some&nbsp;insurer transparency provisions already.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think what this plan, if we want to call it a plan, reflects is just Trump\u2019s desire to have something that he can call a&nbsp;\u201cgreat\u201d&nbsp;health care plan that he\u2019s promised for a long time&nbsp;and&nbsp;which he\u2019s going to&nbsp;talk&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;about. But&nbsp;yeah, I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;think&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to see Republicans in Congress do&nbsp;much&nbsp;on this.&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;with the exception of&nbsp;the PBMs, which is&nbsp;pretty notable, and I think&nbsp;actually&nbsp;represents&nbsp;a&nbsp;really big&nbsp;win for the pharmaceutical industry, which has obviously felt under fire in this administration and&nbsp;has struck these deals with the White House, which they really&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;like. But they had&nbsp;been threatened&nbsp;that the administration would go further in trying to do this&nbsp;\u201cmost favored nation\u201d&nbsp;price caps. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;interesting because&nbsp;insurers are&nbsp;kind of Trump\u2019s&nbsp;new target.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;what I&nbsp;kind of read&nbsp;in this.&nbsp;And&nbsp;of course&nbsp;I would mention today that major insurers are testifying on the Hill because&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;under fire for raising insurance premiums.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Although, as&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;noted&nbsp;many&nbsp;times,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;raising insurance premiums because the cost of health care is going up. Yes,&nbsp;Sheryl.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Julie, I think the political context of the&nbsp;Great&nbsp;Healthcare&nbsp;Plan, the so-called&nbsp;Great&nbsp;Healthcare&nbsp;Plan, is important.&nbsp;First of all, Republicans have had trouble for decades&nbsp;coming up with&nbsp;some kind of health plan,&nbsp;even before&nbsp;the Affordable Care Act&nbsp;was passed&nbsp;and signed into law in 2010.&nbsp;They&nbsp;weren\u2019t able to&nbsp;do it&nbsp;then.&nbsp;President Trump famously&nbsp;said&nbsp;\u201cnobody knew\u201d&nbsp;that health care was&nbsp;\u201cso complicated.\u201d&nbsp;He\u2019s&nbsp;in a situation now where Republicans have stripped&nbsp;many&nbsp;Americans of their health insurance by letting the extended Obamacare credits expire, and&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going into a midterm election season in which his party and he have promised repeatedly that they were going to&nbsp;come up with&nbsp;a plan.&nbsp;He said he had a concept of a plan. I think this plan, so to speak, is&nbsp;not even a concept of a plan, and its primary provision&nbsp;actually&nbsp;lifts&nbsp;from&nbsp;what Sen.&nbsp;[Bill]&nbsp;Cassidy was&nbsp;promoting, which was to steer money away from insurance companies and toward consumers. Trump&nbsp;kind of latched&nbsp;onto that. He&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;say that explicitly in this 325-word proposal, but it seems clear to me that that is his idea, and that is just not a workable idea.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He wants, they want,&nbsp;to move money into health savings accounts. I cracked up my elbow earlier this year. I had surgery to repair it. I saw the bill. The bill was $122,000.&nbsp;I am very blessed to have good health insurance through my company. There is no way that the government is going to steer that kind of money into a health savings account for an uninsured person.&nbsp;These are accounts that are meant to be&nbsp;sort of supplemental&nbsp;to spend on&nbsp;relatively small&nbsp;expenditures.&nbsp;And if you are an uninsured person, there is really no way that you can cover yourself.&nbsp;And&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;basically what&nbsp;this&nbsp;so-called&nbsp;\u201cgreat\u201d&nbsp;American health&nbsp;care plan is proposing, which I suspect, if most Americans really looked at it, they would say, is not so great.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. I&nbsp;also, I&nbsp;broke my wrist this summer. I also had surgery, although I had outpatient surgery,&nbsp;and it cost $30,000.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s,&nbsp;yeah, health&nbsp;care is&nbsp;really expensive, which, as I said, is why insurance premiums are going up.&nbsp;So,&nbsp;this week marks a year since the start of Trump 2.0,&nbsp;and it would take us the rest of the year to detail all that has changed in health policy. But I did want to hit&nbsp;a few&nbsp;themes,&nbsp;some of&nbsp;which&nbsp;you\u2019ve&nbsp;started to talk about,&nbsp;Sheryl.&nbsp;One is the administration\u2019s effort to&nbsp;basically end&nbsp;the&nbsp;federal&nbsp;public&nbsp;health structure as we know it. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta has&nbsp;basically been&nbsp;taken over by political appointees,&nbsp;most of&nbsp;them without health experience or&nbsp;expertise.&nbsp;Sheryl,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;our public health expert here. What does it mean for public health to be&nbsp;basically ceded&nbsp;back to the&nbsp;states?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well,&nbsp;I think this&nbsp;is&nbsp;kind of a&nbsp;novel experiment here.&nbsp;The core of the CDC is its infectious disease programs. Now, over the decades, since the 1970s,&nbsp;the CDC has&nbsp;greatly expanded&nbsp;its remit to cover things like chronic disease and gun violence prevention and auto safety,&nbsp;etc.&nbsp;But its core is infectious disease. And we know that infectious&nbsp;disease knows&nbsp;no borders.&nbsp;So&nbsp;what we risk having here is a patchwork of state-by-state vaccine recommendations, where&nbsp;some&nbsp;states will follow the CDC\u2019s&nbsp;recommendations,&nbsp;presumably those&nbsp;that are red states. This was never political before. And&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;seeing&nbsp;some&nbsp;states,&nbsp;like blue states like New York and Massachusetts and other New England states,&nbsp;kind of coming&nbsp;together to put forth their own vaccine recommendations.&nbsp;I think this&nbsp;has implications for what vaccines will&nbsp;be covered&nbsp;and what vaccines will&nbsp;be offered&nbsp;by the Vaccines for Children&nbsp;Program, which&nbsp;was created&nbsp;by&nbsp;[President]&nbsp;Bill Clinton to cover poor kids and make sure they get vaccinated. I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;think we know how&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;going to play out.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I saw&nbsp;[Health and Human Services]&nbsp;Secretary&nbsp;[Robert F.]&nbsp;Kennedy&nbsp;[Jr.]&nbsp;yesterday in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and he insisted that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;not taking any vaccines away from anyone.&nbsp;If you want your vaccines, you can get them.&nbsp;But the truth is that for&nbsp;decades, the American public and the medical establishment have relied on&nbsp;the CDC to provide guidance. The CDC&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;mandate anything, but it&nbsp;provides&nbsp;really important&nbsp;guidance to the country, and the agency&nbsp;is crippled&nbsp;now. Its guidance is not going to&nbsp;be followed. And I think&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;in uncharted territory here.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;already seeing&nbsp;measles is&nbsp;on the rise. The country\u2019s about to lose its measles elimination status, which we&nbsp;acquired&nbsp;in 2000.&nbsp;Whooping&nbsp;cough is on the rise.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Basically&nbsp;things&nbsp;we know we can prevent with vaccines.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly, exactly.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;One of the things I keep thinking about is, Kennedy says&nbsp;over and over again&nbsp;that if you\u2019re a mom, you should do your own research.&nbsp;And it seems like&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;the effects here&nbsp;is&nbsp;stepping away from this&nbsp;broad recommendation to now this patchwork of recommendations.&nbsp;So&nbsp;when you go to your pediatrician, you might hear guidance based on AAP\u2019s&nbsp;[the&nbsp;American Academy of Pediatrics\u2019]&nbsp;guidance, for example. States are doing&nbsp;different things. And as a parent, when you go to your pediatrician, it&nbsp;all of a sudden, I think, becomes&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more confusing, especially if&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;someone who&nbsp;maybe already&nbsp;has a little bit of hesitancy about vaccines.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&nbsp;was in&nbsp;with&nbsp;our pediatrician last week and asked her what&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;seeing, and people&nbsp;are&nbsp;coming in with&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more questions. And interestingly, they&nbsp;actually are&nbsp;changing their policy for mandatory vaccines. They&nbsp;actually had&nbsp;required every patient to be up to date by age&nbsp;2&nbsp;with the CDC-recommended vaccines. Now those vaccines that are under shared clinical decision-making,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;no longer going to require those. And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not, and&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to continue to recommend them, but I think&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;concerned that patients are going to come&nbsp;in&nbsp;and&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;saying:&nbsp;<em>Hey, the CDC&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;necessarily recommend these now.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;worried about them<\/em>.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s put&nbsp;pediatricians in a difficult place.&nbsp;But,&nbsp;yeah, it\u2019s, as a parent,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;having to make a million decisions about your children, and this just kind of makes that more complicated and confusing, potentially,&nbsp;for parents.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And takes time away from doctors who would like to counsel about other things,&nbsp;too.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;I just want to add one thing about that.&nbsp;Kennedy&nbsp;says&nbsp;do your own research. And if you read the package inserts on a vaccine,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;going to see that vaccines have side effects, just like any drug.&nbsp;But that information needs context around it, and the parents who are weighing those side effects need also to&nbsp;be told&nbsp;about the risk of the diseases that those vaccines&nbsp;are intended&nbsp;to prevent. And my kids&nbsp;are grown.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;wondering how pediatricians are having that conversation, or if&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;having that conversation,&nbsp;in talking to parents about:&nbsp;<em>These are the risks of the vaccine. But should your child get measles, these are the risks<\/em>.&nbsp;Before vaccination was widespread for measles,&nbsp;450 kids died&nbsp;on average every year.&nbsp;Many&nbsp;more&nbsp;were hospitalized.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think&nbsp;those conversations&nbsp;need to&nbsp;be had.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;And I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;hard for pediatricians sometimes to&nbsp;illustrate that, because&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;so far removed from people having examples or knowing anyone who had these.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Not anymore.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;Not anymore.&nbsp;But largely, right? I have&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;parent friends, and I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know a child&nbsp;who\u2019s&nbsp;had measles. Our pediatrician was telling me that when she was in medical school, it was still common for pediatric hospitals to&nbsp;be filled&nbsp;with babies with rotavirus. She said you could smell it down the hallway. And now, actually,&nbsp;the&nbsp;people in medical school,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not experiencing that,&nbsp;because of widespread vaccination.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;All right.&nbsp;Well, the second&nbsp;big thing&nbsp;I want to hit on is, as&nbsp;Sheryl already mentioned, people&nbsp;losing&nbsp;their health insurance. Last summer\u2019s big budget bill would cut&nbsp;nearly a&nbsp;trillion dollars from the Medicaid program and make it more difficult for people to&nbsp;maintain&nbsp;their coverage through the Affordable Care Act.&nbsp;Republicans refusing to extend the expanded Affordable Care Act subsidies from the Biden era is already prompting people to drop coverage that they can no longer afford. What does it mean to the health care system&nbsp;as a whole that&nbsp;the number of Americans without health insurance is going to begin to rise again?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a multipronged thing.&nbsp;There are some aspects of these things that might not be felt immediately, that might be later this year&nbsp;or&nbsp;early next year as different provisions of the&nbsp;[One] Big&nbsp;Beautiful Bill kind of come into play&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;work requirements, things like that that might affect&nbsp;how many people have insurance. But also, I think it&nbsp;kind of goes&nbsp;back to&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the things that&nbsp;Sheryl and Paige were&nbsp;saying about, just, if fewer people&nbsp;are vaccinated, it&nbsp;increases the risks for everyone. And if fewer people have health insurance, regardless of what they have, it also makes it more difficult.&nbsp;If people are not&nbsp;getting treated&nbsp;for things,&nbsp;they&nbsp;get&nbsp;exacerbated&nbsp;into more serious conditions.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think there&nbsp;are&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;issues at play.&nbsp;Some of&nbsp;them have&nbsp;just,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;kind of waiting&nbsp;to see how the effects are.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, people that may have skipped out on ACA insurance this&nbsp;year,&nbsp;maybe they&nbsp;haven\u2019t&nbsp;needed to go to the doctor yet.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;in the first month. People might not go&nbsp;every month. But that&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;mean&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not going to&nbsp;be hit&nbsp;with something big, even tomorrow, next month,&nbsp;month&nbsp;after that. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I think&nbsp;all of&nbsp;these&nbsp;things&nbsp;kind of compound together to make it&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more difficult of a situation, and just&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;the complexities, I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;kind of in&nbsp;both of them&nbsp;where&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;not sure.&nbsp;<em>Oh, is this renewed? Is this not renewed?<\/em>&nbsp;It\u2019s, I think,&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more difficult for the average person to follow this national conversation as&nbsp;much&nbsp;as&nbsp;people that&nbsp;are really plugged&nbsp;in, so that by the time that it&nbsp;trickles down to&nbsp;them, it\u2019s like:&nbsp;<em>Can I sign up for health insurance&nbsp;still?&nbsp;Are the costs high? Am I still eligible?<\/em>&nbsp;It gets&nbsp;more and more&nbsp;confusing. And then people who might be eligible might&nbsp;kind of be scared away with&nbsp;some of&nbsp;that chilling effect.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;I should say, I think emergency rooms will also&nbsp;bear the brunt of&nbsp;the reduction in insurance, because without,&nbsp;people who&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;have health insurance will forgo going to the doctor&nbsp;until&nbsp;their [conditions are]&nbsp;unable to&nbsp;be ignored. And then they will&nbsp;wind up in the emergency room.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And then those, I was going to say,&nbsp;and then those emergency rooms will end up passing the bills that they&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;pay\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;\u2014onto&nbsp;others who can,&nbsp;or in\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly.&nbsp;It will drive up&nbsp;costs\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Paige, started\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;\u2014in the end.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;I think&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;this is going to become clearer over the next couple of months. We still&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;really know the effects of those extra subsidies expiring.&nbsp;I was&nbsp;actually surprised&nbsp;to see that the ACA marketplace enrollment figures they released, I believe last week,&nbsp;were not actually that much lower than last year.&nbsp;But people&nbsp;aren\u2019t&nbsp;kicked&nbsp;off their plan until they&nbsp;haven\u2019t&nbsp;paid their premium for three months.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I think we&nbsp;need to wait until April or so to see how&nbsp;many&nbsp;people were, say, auto-enrolled in a plan which they can no longer afford, and now&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;kicked off. And&nbsp;maybe it\u2019s&nbsp;fewer people than we think.&nbsp;Maybe&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;more&nbsp;people than we think. But I think we just&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know that yet, and&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to&nbsp;have to&nbsp;wait for&nbsp;a&nbsp;couple&nbsp;months&nbsp;to&nbsp;see.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I think&nbsp;you\u2019re exactly&nbsp;right. I had the same reaction to seeing those numbers. Like,&nbsp;<em>Wow, those are&nbsp;pretty high.<\/em>&nbsp;And then&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;like,&nbsp;yeah, but those&nbsp;aren\u2019t&nbsp;necessarily people&nbsp;who\u2019ve&nbsp;had to pay their bills yet. Those are just the people who I think may have signed up hoping that Congress was going to do something. So,&nbsp;yeah, we will have to see how&nbsp;many&nbsp;people, I&nbsp;think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;called&nbsp;\u201ceffectuated enrollment,\u201d&nbsp;and we&nbsp;won\u2019t&nbsp;get those numbers for a little while.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, finally, dismantling the federal research enterprise. As I said,&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;talked about this&nbsp;a lot, but I&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;want to let it&nbsp;sort of go&nbsp;unstated. This administration appears to like to keep people guessing by cutting and then restoring research grants, refusing to spend congressionally appropriated funding until&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;ordered to do it by the court,&nbsp;and firing or laying off workers only to call them back weeks or months later. All that makes it difficult or impossible for researchers and universities to plan their projects and personnel needs. Combined with new limits on federal student loans for&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;graduate students, are we at risk of losing the next generation of researchers?&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;already talking about seeing people moving to Europe to continue their research.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes. I think the answer to that is&nbsp;an unequivocal&nbsp;yes.&nbsp;I am hearing from scientists who are having trouble filling their postdoctoral slots.&nbsp;Or young scientists.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;really the next generation, right? People who are here already and who have families are trying as best they can to&nbsp;sort of stick&nbsp;it out, or&nbsp;maybe&nbsp;they\u2019ll&nbsp;go into industry if they&nbsp;have to&nbsp;leave academia because&nbsp;they\u2019ve&nbsp;lost their grant funding, or if&nbsp;they\u2019ve&nbsp;left NIH.&nbsp;But it really is the next generation of researchers. I hate to draw this comparison, but we did see during World War&nbsp;II, the United States absorbed&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;European researchers. This is how we got Albert Einstein, right?&nbsp;So&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know that&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;see necessarily&nbsp;a reversal of that, of scientists fleeing, but we might see more young people choosing not to go into academic biomedicine.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;already&nbsp;seeing,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just Europe.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;China and India\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Rovner:&nbsp;\u2014offering packages.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;recruiting.&nbsp;Those countries&nbsp;are recruiting.&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;recruiting young scientists, especially China.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;a good point. David Kessler, the former FDA&nbsp;[Food and Drug Administration]&nbsp;commissioner, has argued that this is really a national security threat for the country.&nbsp;China is a main adversary of the United States, certainly of President Trump. And if&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;at risk of losing highly qualified biomedical researchers to China, then we are giving them an advantage.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, something else we will keep an eye on, I think, for the rest of the year. OK,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to take a quick break. We will be right back.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, back to this week\u2019s news. The American Academy of Pediatrics is leading a coalition of public health groups that are suing to reverse the changes to the childhood vaccine schedule made by the CDC earlier this month. The suit claims that the administration violated portions of the law that oversees federal advisory&nbsp;committees that require membership on those panels to be,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201cfairly balanced,\u201d&nbsp;and not,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201cinappropriately influenced.\u201d&nbsp;Among other things, the lawsuit asked the court to ban the CDC\u2019s&nbsp;Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices from further meetings.&nbsp;That would&nbsp;basically stop&nbsp;any further changes to the vaccine schedule,&nbsp;I assume?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;At the end of the day, what ACIP does is just a recommendation to CDC, and they can choose&nbsp;whether or not&nbsp;to go with that recommendation.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I\u2019m not&nbsp;really sure&nbsp;what would happen next, but it is&nbsp;kind of a&nbsp;whack-a-mole situation where just because you stop this does not mean that changes above that aren\u2019t going to happen.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices is just that.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;an advisory committee.&nbsp;So&nbsp;this lawsuit takes issue with appointments to that committee&nbsp;and&nbsp;also&nbsp;complains that the committee&nbsp;was not consulted&nbsp;before the decision&nbsp;was made&nbsp;public to change the vaccine recommendations.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not exactly sure what&nbsp;the legal&nbsp;authority is for that.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;apparently a&nbsp;federal law requiring federal advisory committees to be,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201cfairly balanced\u201d&nbsp;and not&nbsp;\u201cinappropriately influenced.\u201d&nbsp;But this isn\u2019t&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;an executive action&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;right?&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;to appoint committee members. It comes out of the executive branch.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I don\u2019t know of any situation in the past where the judiciary has weighed in and said,&nbsp;<em>You&nbsp;can appoint these people<\/em>&nbsp;or&nbsp;<em>not these people<\/em>, or&nbsp;<em>You&nbsp;have to&nbsp;redo a committee<\/em>.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;hard to predict what the courts will say about this.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Meanwhile,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just the ACIP that HHS Secretary RFK Jr.&nbsp;is taking aim at. Following his remaking of that advisory committee,&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;now fired&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the members of a separate panel, the Advisory Commission on&nbsp;Childhood&nbsp;Vaccines, which oversees the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, which Kennedy has said he also wants to revamp.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;the program that compensates patients who can&nbsp;demonstrate&nbsp;injury from side effects of vaccines. How big a deal could this be if&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;going to go after the vaccine compensation program?&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Julie, this&nbsp;is a big deal, and&nbsp;I\u2019ll&nbsp;tell you why. That committee sets what is known as the table of vaccines. Which injuries does the federal government compensate for? And the federal government does not compensate for autism as a vaccine injury. And I have no evidence of this, but if I were betting,&nbsp;that is where Kennedy wants to go. He does not like the 1986 law that created the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program because it offered liability protection to pharmaceutical companies. He wants to strip away the&nbsp;liability&nbsp;protection, but as I understand it, he does not want to do away with the law. He does not want to do away with the compensation program.&nbsp;So&nbsp;he may be trying to lay the foundation for the compensation program to be more expansive and cover injuries or allow claims for injuries that&nbsp;are not currently considered&nbsp;vaccine injuries,&nbsp;like autism.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Which of course would collapse the program because&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;paid for by an excise tax on vaccines. That was the original deal back in 1986. The vaccine manufacturers&nbsp;said:&nbsp;<em>We\u2019ll&nbsp;pay you this tax, from which you, the federal government, will&nbsp;determine&nbsp;who gets compensated. And in exchange,&nbsp;you\u2019ll&nbsp;relieve us of this liability, because&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;getting sued&nbsp;to death. And if you&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;do this,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to stop making vaccines entirely.<\/em>&nbsp;That was the origin of this back in 1986. And I was there.&nbsp;I covered it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, exactly.&nbsp;I have read&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;this history, and&nbsp;the CDC was really&nbsp;over a barrel.&nbsp;The companies were writing to CDC, saying,&nbsp;<em>We\u2019re&nbsp;going to pull the plug on our vaccines.<\/em>&nbsp;And the CDC was worried that American kids were going to go without lifesaving vaccines because companies were going to quit making them.&nbsp;So&nbsp;they pushed this bill.&nbsp;[President Ronald]&nbsp;Reagan&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;like it. He signed it into law anyway.&nbsp;And it\u2019s created this program, which is&nbsp;actually imperfect.&nbsp;A&nbsp;lot of&nbsp;people who&nbsp;actually legitimately&nbsp;have vaccine-injured children have trouble&nbsp;getting compensated&nbsp;through this program., and I think&nbsp;many&nbsp;people on all sides of this issue would say that it does need to&nbsp;be overhauled. But it will be interesting to see who Kennedy&nbsp;picks for&nbsp;those committee slots.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I think&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to learn&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more about it.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;going to learn&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more about it this year. Well, finally, in vaccine land&nbsp;this week, Texas&nbsp;attorney&nbsp;general and U.S.&nbsp;Senate candidate Ken Paxton on Wednesday announced what his office is calling a,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201cwide sweeping investigation into unlawful financial incentives related to childhood vaccine recommendations.\u201d&nbsp;His statement says that there is a,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201cmulti-level, multi-industry scheme that has illegally incentivized medical providers to recommend childhood vaccines that are not proven to be safe or necessary.\u201d&nbsp;Actually, one&nbsp;of the reasons that Congress created the Vaccines for Children&nbsp;Program back in the 1990s,&nbsp;Sheryl, as you mentioned earlier, is because most pediatricians lost money on giving vaccines. And today,&nbsp;many&nbsp;people&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;even get vaccines from their doctors,&nbsp;because&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;too expensive for the doctors to stock them. What does Paxton think he might find here?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;This is like&nbsp;stump&nbsp;the&nbsp;panelists.&nbsp;No one knows.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I see&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;people\u2019s\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019m not sure what he thinks he might find, but I do think that he is one of the attorneys general that is&nbsp;generally on&nbsp;the forefront of&nbsp;trying things,&nbsp;to throw spaghetti at the wall and see if it sticks on a variety&nbsp;of issues.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it might be the sort of thing where if he&nbsp;finds something, then it could be&nbsp;kind of a&nbsp;jumping point for other&nbsp;conservative&nbsp;attorneys&nbsp;general. And&nbsp;of course&nbsp;just that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;primarying&nbsp;Sen.&nbsp;John Cornyn for Senate, so if it&nbsp;raises his profile for more folks. But&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not sure if&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a specific thing that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;looking&nbsp;for.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;trying to curry favor with the anti-vaxxers in Texas, of which we know there are&nbsp;a lot.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;That would be my best read.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;Austin is,&nbsp;actually,&nbsp;the&nbsp;state&nbsp;capital in Austin is a hot spot for anti-vaccine activism. Andrew Wakefield, who wrote the 1998 Lancet article&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;been retracted, is in Austin. Del Bigtree, who runs the&nbsp;Informed&nbsp;Consent Action Network, is in Austin.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a group that I have&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2025\/05\/18\/us\/politics\/texas-moms-vaccine-mandates.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">written about<\/a>&nbsp;called Texans for&nbsp;Vaccine&nbsp;Choice that is one of the early parent-driven groups seeking to roll back vaccine mandates, is&nbsp;based in Austin.&nbsp;So&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;sentiment there that Ken Paxton might be trying to appeal to.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;See?&nbsp;You\u2019ve&nbsp;answered my question.&nbsp;Thank you. All right, that is this week\u2019s news. Before we get to my interview with Dr.&nbsp;Zeke Emanuel, a couple of corrections from last week. First, I misspoke when I said House Republicans were becoming a minority in name only. Of course, I meant they were becoming a majority in name only. I also incorrectly said the lawsuit that helped get the&nbsp;Title&nbsp;X&nbsp;family planning money flowing back to clinics&nbsp;was filed&nbsp;by Planned Parenthood. It was&nbsp;actually filed&nbsp;by the ACLU&nbsp;[American Civil Liberties Union]&nbsp;on behalf of the National&nbsp;Family&nbsp;Planning and&nbsp;Reproductive&nbsp;Health&nbsp;Association. Apologies to all.&nbsp;OK, now we will play my interview with Dr.&nbsp;Zeke Emanuel about his new&nbsp;wellness book, and then&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;come back and do our extra credits.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am so pleased to welcome back to the podcast Dr.&nbsp;Ezekiel Emanuel.&nbsp;Zeke is an oncologist and bioethicist by training&nbsp;and currently serves as&nbsp;vice&nbsp;provost for global initiatives and&nbsp;professor of&nbsp;medical&nbsp;ethics and&nbsp;health&nbsp;policy at the University of Pennsylvania. He formerly worked at the National Institutes of Health before he helped write and implement the Affordable Care Act while his brother Rahm&nbsp;was serving as President&nbsp;[Barack]&nbsp;Obama\u2019s White House&nbsp;chief of&nbsp;staff. Zeke\u2019s latest book,&nbsp;<em>Eat&nbsp;Your&nbsp;Ice&nbsp;Cream:&nbsp;Six Simple Rules for a Long and Healthy Life<\/em>,&nbsp;is out now. Zeke, welcome back to&nbsp;<em>What the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ezekiel Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;Oh,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;my great honor and pleasure.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;I feel like the subtitle of this book could be&nbsp;<em>How to&nbsp;Keep&nbsp;Yourself&nbsp;Healthy&nbsp;Without&nbsp;Making&nbsp;Yourself Crazy or Broke<\/em>&nbsp;and that&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a not so thinly veiled attack on what&nbsp;many&nbsp;of us refer to as the&nbsp;\u201cwellness industrial complex.\u201d&nbsp;What\u2019s&nbsp;gone wrong with the wellness movement? Isn\u2019t it good for us to pursue wellness?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;It is good for us to pursue wellness.&nbsp;I think that there&nbsp;are&nbsp;probably three&nbsp;things that are seriously wrong with the movement. The first one is that they make wellness an obsession that you&nbsp;have to&nbsp;focus all your energy on, which is&nbsp;totally wrong.&nbsp;Wellness should be a habit that sort of works in the background while you focus on the&nbsp;really important&nbsp;things of life.&nbsp;I think the second thing&nbsp;is they tend to overcomplicate things. Part of that is&nbsp;they\u2019ve&nbsp;got to send out an email every day or every other day.&nbsp;They\u2019ve&nbsp;got to do a video, a podcast, what have&nbsp;you.&nbsp;And&nbsp;so&nbsp;they make it complicated so that they have something to report on. And the third thing is they make it oversimple.&nbsp;They\u2019re&nbsp;reductionist.&nbsp;They talk about diet and exercise and sleep, and leave out other&nbsp;very, very important&nbsp;parts of wellness,&nbsp;maybe the&nbsp;most important part of wellness, which is your social interactions.&nbsp;And&nbsp;almost all&nbsp;these experts ignore it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the last thing I would say&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;I guess I&nbsp;have four points&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;the last thing I would say is they have huge conflicts of interest. The&nbsp;wellness industrial complex is between&nbsp;$1-&nbsp;and&nbsp;$2 trillion&nbsp;a year, depending&nbsp;on&nbsp;what you want to include in that bucket, which means that&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;people chasing&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;money trying to sell you&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;crazy items.&nbsp;So&nbsp;there\u2019s money to&nbsp;be had&nbsp;and&nbsp;<em>Them&nbsp;thar&nbsp;hills<\/em>&nbsp;and people make all sorts of exaggerations. I want to emphasize for your listeners,&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;selling nothing, absolutely nothing.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I will say,&nbsp;I went to your book party.&nbsp;I\u2019ve&nbsp;been to&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;book parties over the years.&nbsp;Yours is the first one where I&nbsp;actually was&nbsp;not expected to buy the book.&nbsp;You&nbsp;actually gave&nbsp;the book&nbsp;away.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;I&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;stand that. Oh, I hate that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I would say, I assume you were making a point with that. I also ate&nbsp;the ice&nbsp;cream, which was&nbsp;very good.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;I feel like your underlying message here is that&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not enough to make yourself biologically healthy&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;you&nbsp;have to&nbsp;do things that make you happy,&nbsp;too. Is that a fair interpretation?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;a very fair interpretation. Look, if&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;going to do wellness&nbsp;right,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;going to be doing it for years and decades of your life. You&nbsp;cannot will&nbsp;yourself to do something for decades. You&nbsp;can will&nbsp;yourself to do&nbsp;something&nbsp;for&nbsp;a few&nbsp;weeks and&nbsp;a few&nbsp;months, but then, unless it becomes a habit that you&nbsp;actually enjoy,&nbsp;you\u2019re simply not going to continue to do it. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;if you want to eat&nbsp;well, you want to exercise, you want to have social interactions, you&nbsp;actually have&nbsp;to make them something&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;pleasurable for your life, something&nbsp;that you find meaningful, even.&nbsp;That\u2019s, again, I&nbsp;think&nbsp;something&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;seriously missing from&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;these wellness influencers, because they make&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;wellness about self-denial, about:&nbsp;<em>You should deprive yourself<\/em>.&nbsp;<em>You should fast<\/em>.&nbsp;Maybe you&nbsp;should&nbsp;fast.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;OK&nbsp;if you can do it and you can work it into your schedule.&nbsp;Actually&nbsp;today&nbsp;is one of my fast days, so I am working it into my schedule. But&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not for everyone, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not essential to wellness and living a long and happy life.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;what are your six simple rules,&nbsp;in two minutes or less?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;The first one is:&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;be a&nbsp;schmuck.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;take unreasonable risks.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;climb Mount Everest.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;go BASE jumping.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;smoke.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;do&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;other stupid things. The second is: Engage people. A rich social life is the most important thing for a long, healthy,&nbsp;and happy life, and having close friends who you get together with regularly,&nbsp;talk to every week, have dinners&nbsp;with,&nbsp;acquaintances,&nbsp;very, very important. And then casually talking to people who you happen to interact with, either when you get your coffee, you go to the grocery store, you go to the restaurant, you hop in an Uber or a cab. Those are&nbsp;very important&nbsp;social interactions that we tend to ignore and tend to downplay. The third rule is: Keep your mind mentally sharp. And there are important aspects of that.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;retire. Take on new cognitive challenges.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The fourth is:&nbsp;Eat well,&nbsp;and make sure you get rid of the unhealthy eating part and eat important, non-processed items. The fifth is:&nbsp;Exercise. Do the three kinds of exercise:&nbsp;aerobic exercise, strength training,&nbsp;and balance and flexibility with yoga. And the last one&nbsp;is:&nbsp;Sleep&nbsp;well.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;the one you&nbsp;cannot will&nbsp;yourself to begin doing. You can only&nbsp;sort of prep&nbsp;the bedroom and then hope it happens.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;this whole thing&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;really need to be book length, but you spent&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;time reviewing the literature on various aspects of health and wellness, like,&nbsp;you know, a scientist would. Are you trying to make a point here about the current state of science and how the public views it?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;I am.&nbsp;I am a data-driven guy. I like data. I think when you have more than&nbsp;3 million people&nbsp;that have&nbsp;been surveyed&nbsp;and followed in terms of social interactions and their impact on your wellness and your physical health,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;worth noting, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;worth noting what those studies come to. And they all come to the same basic thing, which is you can reduce your risk of death and mortality in the&nbsp;subsequent&nbsp;six,&nbsp;10, 12 years, depending upon the study, by about 20%&nbsp;to 30% by greater social interaction, more robust friendships.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;a&nbsp;pretty impressive number, if you ask me.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;trying to emphasize the data and get people to understand and&nbsp;be motivated&nbsp;by the data.&nbsp;And I think I\u2019m&nbsp;pretty clear&nbsp;about moments when I,&nbsp;say, interpret the data differently than&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;other people do, because I think that\u2019s part of science.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So,&nbsp;for example, the PSA&nbsp;[prostate-specific antigen]&nbsp;test.&nbsp;Most guidelines say you should&nbsp;get&nbsp;a PSA test.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;against the PSA test because, yes, it will reduce your risk of dying from prostate cancer, but it does not reduce your overall mortality. I think I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;much&nbsp;care&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;written on my death certificate. I care about the length and wellness of my life, and the PSA&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;going to affect that. But others disagree,&nbsp;and then&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;very frank about&nbsp;those kind of disagreements.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;in 2014 you&nbsp;rather famously&nbsp;wrote&nbsp;an Atlantic article called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.theatlantic.com\/magazine\/archive\/2014\/10\/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75\/379329\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Why I&nbsp;Hope&nbsp;To&nbsp;Die at 75<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;Has&nbsp;writing&nbsp;this book changed your mind about this? And I will say,&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;only a year younger than you, so I have a stake in this,&nbsp;too.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;No,&nbsp;writing&nbsp;this book&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;change my mind.&nbsp;It did change&nbsp;some&nbsp;things that I&nbsp;do.&nbsp;I will say,&nbsp;what really changed my mind,&nbsp;to the extent that anything changed my mind, was covid and the idea of getting vaccines after 75,&nbsp;I think, is a good thing, especially if&nbsp;whatever\u2019s&nbsp;going around is targeting older people.&nbsp;It seems easy to protect yourself, whether from the flu or something like covid, with a vaccine.&nbsp;So&nbsp;that,&nbsp;I have changed my mind. Researching this book made me put a little more emphasis on, for example, strength training, which I had not done a whole lot of, directly.&nbsp;I\u2019d&nbsp;done it because I&nbsp;ride&nbsp;a bicycle and I&nbsp;strengthen&nbsp;my lower half,&nbsp;my quads and my hamstrings and my gluteal muscles, but I&nbsp;hadn\u2019t&nbsp;really focused on the upper body.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;You should do Pilates.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;great.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;Noted.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Zeke&nbsp;Emanuel. It is always fun to chat with you. And congratulations on the book.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:&nbsp;<\/strong>Thank you, Julie. This has been wonderful and very rapid-fire, more rapid-fire than anyone, because you get right to the heart of things.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well, we have&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;more&nbsp;that&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to talk about this week. Thank you,&nbsp;Zeke.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Emanuel:<\/strong>&nbsp;Take care,&nbsp;Julie.&nbsp;Bye-bye.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;OK,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;back.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;time for our&nbsp;extra-credit&nbsp;segment.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;where we each recognize the story we read this&nbsp;week&nbsp;we think you should read,&nbsp;too.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Sandhya, why don\u2019t you go first&nbsp;this week?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;My extra credit is called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/popular.info\/p\/ice-has-stopped-paying-for-detainee\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">ICE Has Stopped Paying for Detainee Medical Treatment<\/a>,\u201dand&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;by Judd&nbsp;Legum for&nbsp;Popular&nbsp;Information,&nbsp;his newsletter. And I thought this was really interesting, because,&nbsp;I think,&nbsp;for me, I look very much at HHS and major health agencies, but his piece kind of looks at how&nbsp;ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement]&nbsp;has not been paying third-party providers for medical care for detainees since October and that&nbsp;ICE,&nbsp;last week, the agency kind of quietly announced that it would not be processing any of the claims for medical care until April of 2026. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;doctors&nbsp;are instructed&nbsp;to&nbsp;kind of hold&nbsp;on that. And that\u2019s&nbsp;kind of a&nbsp;downward spiral of providers denying services to detainees because they know&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not going to&nbsp;get paid&nbsp;for a while. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I thought this was&nbsp;a really interesting&nbsp;piece looking&nbsp;at that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes,&nbsp;indeed. And&nbsp;kind of scary. Paige.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, mine is a piece in Politico called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/01\/19\/rfk-lawyers-plaintiffs-tort-trial-bar-00735148\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">RFK Jr. Is Bringing the GOP and the Trial Bar Together<\/a>,\u201d&nbsp;and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;by Amanda Chu. And this really caught my eye because&nbsp;it was a look at how RFK\u2019s demonization of food and&nbsp;pharma is motivating&nbsp;trial&nbsp;lawyers representing consumers who are saying they\u2019ve been harmed by these products&nbsp;\u2014 one example, of course, is the lawsuit against the maker of Tylenol&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;and how this really kind of goes against where Republicans have usually been,&nbsp;against&nbsp;trial&nbsp;lawyers representing consumers who say they\u2019ve been harmed by big, bad companies.&nbsp;And so,&nbsp;yeah, it was&nbsp;a&nbsp;really interesting&nbsp;look at that and just at how RFK\u2019s&nbsp;kind of populist, pro-consumer streak has fueled all of this.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;The&nbsp;world indeed&nbsp;turned upside down.&nbsp;Sheryl.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;my extra credit is from Rolling Stone. The headline is&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rollingstone.com\/politics\/politics-news\/danish-vaccine-study-emails-hhs-rfk-jr-1235498456\/?_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_u0-q7nHxATjgKn6gWaFn7UIMBxH-Ei1DfofTutgv778wLzFyWFd9v3biAOUNDr6oK1MVQcLZgWKTZBzObKJp30SUBzw&amp;_hsmi=399255450\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">HHS Gave a $1.6 Million Grant to a Controversial Vaccine Study. These Emails Show How That Happened<\/a>,\u201d&nbsp;and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;by&nbsp;Katherine Eban.&nbsp;She\u2019s&nbsp;a terrific journalist. And this is about the study in Guinea-Bissau. When CDC pulled back its recommendation for children to&nbsp;be vaccinated&nbsp;at birth against&nbsp;hepatitis B, HHS gave this grant to these Danish researchers to conduct this study in Guinea-Bissau, which would compare vaccinated infants to unvaccinated infants. And there was a huge howl of protest.&nbsp;This study&nbsp;would&nbsp;never&nbsp;be done&nbsp;in this country. The idea of withholding a vaccine from an&nbsp;infant that has&nbsp;been proven&nbsp;to be safe and effective&nbsp;is highly unethical. It evokes memories of the Tuskegee study,&nbsp;in which government doctors withheld treatment for syphilis.&nbsp;So&nbsp;there was this huge uproar, and it turns out that the researchers who got the grant are these Danish statisticians who have a&nbsp;really questionable&nbsp;research history.&nbsp;And the story documents, through emails, how they got&nbsp;basically this&nbsp;no-bid grant by coordinating with&nbsp;some of&nbsp;Kennedy\u2019s allies from&nbsp;his movement, from his vaccine&nbsp;advocacy&nbsp;days. And it was&nbsp;kind of an&nbsp;inside&nbsp;deal, basically.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I just think that this study has generated&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;a&nbsp;lot of&nbsp;complaints. I should say that the researchers have amended the protocol, and now I think&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to give shots to one group at age&nbsp;6&nbsp;weeks. But still,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a very problematic study, and the story exposes how it came to be.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, it is quite the story. Well, I also have an immigration story.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;from my former colleague Liz Szabo at the University of Minnesota\u2019s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.cidrap.umn.edu\/influenza-general\/minnesota-residents-delay-medical-care-fear-encountering-ice\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Minnesota Residents Delay Medical Care for Fear of Encountering ICE<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just undocumented people avoiding medical care, as Liz details.&nbsp;U.S.&nbsp;citizens with serious health needs are also scared of&nbsp;getting caught&nbsp;up in the&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;dragnet&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;now all around the city. And&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;officials have even been entering hospitals and other health facilities&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;which in previous years they had not&nbsp;been allowed&nbsp;to do.&nbsp;In the dead of winter in Minneapolis,&nbsp;with a particularly severe flu year, this is threatening to become a health crisis as well as an immigration crisis.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>OK, that\u2019s this week\u2019s show. Before we go,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;almost February. That means our annual&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;News&nbsp;Health&nbsp;Policy Valentine contest is open. Please send us your clever, heartfelt,&nbsp;or hilarious tributes to the policies that shape health&nbsp;care. I will post a link to&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/health-policy-valentines-annual-contest\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">the formal announcement<\/a>&nbsp;in the show notes. As always, thanks to our editor,&nbsp;Emmarie Huetteman,&nbsp;and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying.&nbsp;A&nbsp;reminder:&nbsp;<em>What the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app,&nbsp;and wherever you get your podcast, as well as, of course,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">kffhealthnews.org<\/a>.&nbsp;Also&nbsp;as always you can email us your comments or questions.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:whatthehealth@kff.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">whatthehealth@kff.org<\/a>.&nbsp;Or you can find me still on X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/jrovner\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@jrovner<\/a>, or on Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@julierovner<\/a>. Where are you folks hanging these days?&nbsp;Sandhya.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Raman:<\/strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/SandhyaWrites\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">On&nbsp;X<\/a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/sandhyawrites.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Bluesky<\/a>, @SandhyaWrites.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Sheryl&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Stolberg:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/SherylNYT\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">on&nbsp;X<\/a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/sherylnyt.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Bluesky<\/a>,&nbsp;@SherylNYT.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Paige.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Winfield Cunningham:<\/strong>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;on&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/pw_cunningham\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@pw_cunningham<\/a>,&nbsp;and&nbsp;Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/paigecunningham.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@paigecunningham<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We will be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-credits block--credits\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"credits-title\">\n\t\tCredits\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"credits-card-container twowide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Francis Ying<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Audio producer<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Emmarie Huetteman <\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Editor <\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" \/>\n\n\n\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/our-podcasts\/\"><u>Click here to find all our podcasts.<\/u><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>And subscribe to &#8220;What the Health? From KFF Health News&#8221; on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/what-the-health\/id1253607372?mt=2\"><u>Apple Podcasts<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/32EdsB662C3oyIrqLMmBXI?si=TQhRjzzLTgWtK3crfbOFtA\"><u>Spotify<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/app.npr.org\/aggregation\/fis-1269164038\"><u>the NPR app<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PL5Qew-7pSXbAucCUQnyRx6qpLglzrxzFb\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/play.pocketcasts.com\/web\/podcasts\/a379e280-3f57-0135-9028-63f4b61a9224\"><u>Pocket Casts<\/u><\/a>, or wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Lawmakers appear on the brink of passing a spending bill for the Department of Health and Human Services and a bipartisan health policy bill delayed for over a year. But the outlook is bleaker for the health care outline released by President Trump last week. Sandhya Raman of CQ Roll Call, Sheryl Gay Stolberg of The New York Times, and Paige Winfield Cunningham of The Washington Post join KFF Health News\u2019 Julie Rovner to discuss those stories and more. Also this week, Rovner interviews oncologist and bioethicist Ezekiel Emanuel to discuss his new book, \u201cEat Your Ice Cream.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":2103181,"template":"","meta":{"_cr_original_post":"2103176","_cr_replace_post_id":"","_cr_replacing_post_id":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"kaiser_health_news_featured_image_caption":"","kaiser_health_news_header_theme_slug":"","kaiser_health_news_hero_image":0,"kaiser_health_news_backdrop_padding":115,"kaiser_health_news_kicker":"What the Health? 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