{"id":2148643,"date":"2026-01-29T15:20:00","date_gmt":"2026-01-29T20:20:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/?p=2148643&#038;post_type=podcast&#038;preview_id=2148643"},"modified":"2026-01-30T12:18:07","modified_gmt":"2026-01-30T17:18:07","slug":"what-the-health-431-ice-immigration-minneapolis-shootings-january-29-2026","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/podcast\/what-the-health-431-ice-immigration-minneapolis-shootings-january-29-2026\/","title":{"rendered":"What the Health? From KFF Health News: The Hazards of ICE for Public Health"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"block--iframe\">\n\t<iframe\n\t\tallow=\"fullscreen\"\n\t\tframeborder=\"0\"\n\t\theight=\"188\"\n\t\tsrc=\"https:\/\/play.prx.org\/e?ge=prx_14448_d7733065-8d4e-442e-8e47-b69477f5cae2&#038;uf=https%3A%2F%2Fwhatthehealth.feeds.wamu.org\"\n\t\twidth=\"100%\"\n\t><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tThe Host\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container single\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg 1100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Julie Rovner<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">KFF Health News<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" title=\"@jrovner\">\n\t\t\t\t@jrovner\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" title=\"@julierovner.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@julierovner.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/author\/julie-rovner\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Julie&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\tJulie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of KFF Health News\u2019 weekly health policy news podcast, &quot;What the Health?&quot; A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book &quot;Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z,&quot; now in its third edition.\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>The actions of federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are having ramifications far beyond immigration. Medical groups say that ICE agents in health facilities in Minneapolis and other cities are imperiling patient care, while in Washington, the backlash from a second fatal shooting by agents in Minnesota has stalled action on an eleventh-hour suite of spending bills.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, anti-abortion groups remain unhappy with the Trump administration over what they see as its reluctance to scale back the availability of the abortion pill mifepristone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This week\u2019s panelists are Julie Rovner of KFF Health News, Maya Goldman of Axios, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Rachel Roubein of The Washington Post.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tPanelists\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container threewide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg 800w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/02\/Goldman-Maya_800sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Maya Goldman<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Axios<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/mayagoldman_\" title=\"@mayagoldman_\">\n\t\t\t\t@mayagoldman_\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/maya-goldman.bsky.social\" title=\"@maya-goldman.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@maya-goldman.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.axios.com\/authors\/mgoldman\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Maya&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg 800w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Alice Miranda Ollstein<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Politico<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/AliceOllstein\" title=\"@AliceOllstein\">\n\t\t\t\t@AliceOllstein\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/alicemiranda.bsky.social\" title=\"@alicemiranda.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@alicemiranda.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/staff\/alice-miranda-ollstein\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Alice&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg 803w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Roubein_803sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Rachel Roubein<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">The Washington Post<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rachel_roubein\" title=\"@rachel_roubein\">\n\t\t\t\t@rachel_roubein\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/people\/rachel-roubein\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Rachel&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Among the takeaways from this week\u2019s episode:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Concerns intensified this week over President Donald Trump\u2019s immigration sweep after federal agents killed a second citizen in the midst of the crackdown in Minneapolis. Democrats in Congress are blocking approval of government spending as they call for renegotiating Department of Homeland Security funding, potentially forcing a partial government shutdown this weekend. In Minnesota and elsewhere, there are reports of patients postponing medical care and doctors pushing back on the presence of federal agents in hospitals.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>After the Department of Health and Human Services cut off some federal funding to Minnesota over allegations of Medicaid fraud, other Democratic-led states in particular are fearing HHS could do the same to them. Typically the federal government conducts investigations and imposes sanctions in response to concerns of fraud; it\u2019s unusual that HHS has opted to halt some funding instead.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Abortion opponents last week held their annual March for Life in Washington. The Trump administration marked the occasion by reinstating and expanding policies imposed during the president\u2019s first term, including a ban on fetal tissue research and what\u2019s known as the Mexico City Policy. Still, the administration has not made notable progress on a key goal of the anti-abortion movement: barring access to medication abortion.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Meanwhile, senators are still trying to sort out a bipartisan compromise to restart the enhanced Affordable Care Act premium subsidies that expired last year. And insurance company executives appeared before House lawmakers last week to answer questions about affordability as the Trump administration announced a plan to keep reimbursement rates nearly flat next year for private Medicare Advantage plans.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>And KFF Health News\u2019 annual Health Policy Valentine contest is open. <a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/health-policy-valentines-annual-contest\/\">You can enter the contest here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n<div\n\tclass=\"wp-block block--newsletter  \"\n\tdata-type=\"kaiser-health-news\/newsletter\"\n\tdata-align=\"center\"\n\tstyle=\"\"\n>\n\t<h4 class=\"newsletter__title\">\n\t\t<a href=\"\/email\/\">\n\t\t\tEmail Sign-Up\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/h4>\n\t<p class=\"newsletter__description\">\n\t\tSubscribe to KFF Health News&#039; free Morning Briefing.\t<\/p>\n\t\n<form\n\taction=\"\/email-signup\/\"\n\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form\"\n\tmethod=\"post\"\n>\n\t<input type=\"hidden\" id=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" name=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" value=\"87a489a56a\" \/><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"_wp_http_referer\" value=\"\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/2148643\" \/>\t\t\t\t<label\n\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__label--email\"\n\t\tfor=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t>\n\t\t<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">\n\t\t\tYour Email Address\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<input\n\t\t\tautocomplete=\"email\"\n\t\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__input--email\"\n\t\t\tid=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t\t\tname=\"kaiser_hubspot_email\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"email\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tplaceholder=\"Your email address\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t<\/label>\n\t<button class=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__submit\">\n\t\tSign Up\t<\/button>\n<\/form>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Plus, for \u201cextra credit\u201d the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong> Science\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.science.org\/content\/article\/u-s-government-has-lost-more-10-000-stem-ph-d-s-trump-took-office?utm_source=sfmc&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_content=alert&amp;utm_campaign=DailyLatestNews&amp;et_rid=60658150&amp;et_cid=5859949\">U.S. Government Has Lost More Than 10,000 STEM Ph.D.s Since Trump Took Office<\/a>,\u201d by Monica Hersher and Jeffrey Mervis.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Maya Goldman:<\/strong> NBC News\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nbcnews.com\/health\/health-news\/aca-obamacare-enrollment-bronze-cheapest-plans-premiums-rcna255616\">Many Obamacare Enrollees Have Switched to Cheaper Bronze Plans. Here\u2019s Why That Could Be Risky<\/a>,\u201d by Berkeley Lovelace Jr.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Alice Miranda Ollstein:<\/strong> The New York Times\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/01\/27\/us\/politics\/after-donations-trump-administration-revoked-rule-requiring-more-nursing-home-staff.html?unlocked_article_code=1.HlA.LWpF.vrt019HUzWKq&amp;smid=url-share\">After Donations, Trump Administration Revoked Rule Requiring More Nursing Home Staff<\/a>,\u201d by Kenneth P. Vogel and Christina Jewett.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rachel Roubein:<\/strong> Stat\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/2026\/01\/28\/kennedy-names-new-autism-advisors-advocates-alarmed-vaccine-skeptics\/\">HHS Appoints 21 New Members to Federal Autism Advisory Committee<\/a>,\u201d by O. Rose Broderick.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also mentioned in this week\u2019s episode:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Axios\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.axios.com\/2026\/01\/27\/trump-ice-minnesota-deportations-hospitals\">Fear of ICE Is Driving Patients Away From Medical Care<\/a>,\u201d by Maya Goldman.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Annals of Internal Medicine\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.acpjournals.org\/doi\/10.7326\/ANNALS-25-04022\">Unexplained Pauses in Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Surveillance: Erosion of the Public Evidence Base for Health Policy<\/a>,\u201d by Jeremy W. Jacobs, Garrett S. Booth, Noel T. Brewer, and Janet Freilich.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Politico\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/01\/27\/trump-asks-federal-court-to-hit-pause-on-abortion-pill-case-citing-ongoing-study-00750658?_hsenc=p2ANqtz--QdPb9oXjq7CLwPsyg7U88fnpu0mHZUZFnq4yC7ZSKWDKH9gAlVCNEKcEozL_q4wXJUTfCnVV-E8FlzCzcJZOWmbzghA&amp;_hsmi=400840940&amp;utm_campaign=KHN:+Daily+Health+Policy+Report&amp;utm_content=400840940&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_source=hs_email\">Trump Asks Federal Court To Hit Pause on Abortion Pill Case, Citing Ongoing Study<\/a>,\u201d by Alice Miranda Ollstein.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Washington Post\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/health\/2026\/01\/24\/public-health-trump-kennedy-cdc\/\">Freeze of Public Health Funds for States, Then Reversal, Sows Confusion<\/a>,\u201d by Lena H. Sun and Rachel Roubein.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Georgetown University Center for Children and Families\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/ccf.georgetown.edu\/2026\/01\/16\/cms-weaponizes-fraud-against-medicaid-in-minnesota\/\">CMS Weaponizes Fraud Against Medicaid in Minnesota<\/a>,\u201d by Andy Schneider.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>KFF\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kff.org\/public-opinion\/kff-health-tracking-poll-health-care-costs-expiring-aca-tax-credits-and-the-2026-midterms\/?utm_campaign=KFF-Polling-Surveys&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;_hsenc=p2ANqtz--KfTi2JHmIM2jB7sfilwz0AkUd_vCJWIvixf33N8lkKCQNJ_xrHdlC06Ddn30WpxiUzTMIqlJD_wCTTm-bUOKiDTm3YQ&amp;_hsmi=401038841&amp;utm_content=401038841&amp;utm_source=hs_email\">KFF Health Tracking Poll: Health Care Costs, Expiring ACA Tax Credits, and the 2026 Midterms<\/a>,\u201d by Shannon Schumacher, Audrey Kearney, Mardet Mulugeta, Isabelle Valdes, Ashley Kirzinger, and Liz Hamel.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><em>[<strong>Clarification:<\/strong> This article was revised at 12:30 p.m. ET on Jan. 30, 2026, to clarify that the agents involved in the Trump administration\u2019s immigration crackdown represent not only the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency but also the broader Department of Homeland Security.]<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<section class=\"block--expandable has-label\"\n\t\t\tid=\"podcast-expandable\"\n\t>\n\t\t\t<input type=\"checkbox\" name=\"expandable-radio\" id=\"strong-transcript-the-hazards-of-ice-for-public-health-strong\">\n\t\t<label class=\"expandable__title-label\" for=\"strong-transcript-the-hazards-of-ice-for-public-health-strong\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__label  \"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"background-color: #004b87;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\tClick to open the transcript\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__title\"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"font-size: 36px;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<strong>Transcript: The Hazards of ICE for Public Health<\/strong>\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content--container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<p><em>[<\/em><strong><em>Editor\u2019s note:<\/em><\/strong><em>&nbsp;This transcript&nbsp;was generated&nbsp;using transcription software. It has&nbsp;been edited&nbsp;for style and clarity.]<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello from&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;News and WAMU&nbsp;public radio&nbsp;in Washington, D.C. Welcome to&nbsp;<em>What the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;Julie Rovner,&nbsp;chief Washington correspondent for&nbsp;KFF Health&nbsp;News, and&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;joined by&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the best and smartest health reporters in Washington.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;taping this week on Thursday, Jan.&nbsp;29,&nbsp;at 10&nbsp;a.m.&nbsp;As always, news happens&nbsp;fast&nbsp;and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So,&nbsp;here we go.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today&nbsp;we&nbsp;are joined&nbsp;via&nbsp;videoconference by Alice Miranda&nbsp;Ollstein&nbsp;of Politico.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Alice Miranda&nbsp;Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>Maya Goldman of Axios&nbsp;News.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Maya Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hi.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>And Rachel&nbsp;Roubein&nbsp;of&nbsp;The Washington Post.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rachel&nbsp;Roubein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hi,&nbsp;everyone.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>No interview&nbsp;this iced-in&nbsp;week here in Washington,&nbsp;but&nbsp;still&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;news. So last week at this time, Congress was busy patting itself on the back for&nbsp;being poised&nbsp;to pass all 12 annual appropriation bills before their Jan.&nbsp;30 deadline, including the two biggest ones, those funding the Departments of Defense and Health and Human Services.&nbsp;Still, as&nbsp;I believe I&nbsp;said at the time, it\u2019s not done until it\u2019s done,&nbsp;and,&nbsp;well, it\u2019s not done.&nbsp;What happened, of course, is that after the House passed the remaining six spending bills and left for a week\u2019s recess,&nbsp;on Saturday,&nbsp;federal&nbsp;[Border Patrol]&nbsp;officers shot and killed a VA&nbsp;[Department of Veterans Affairs]&nbsp;ICU nurse, Alex Pretti,&nbsp;on the streets of Minneapolis, where he was participating in an&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;[Immigration and Customs Enforcement]&nbsp;protest. That second killing of a civilian in three weeks&nbsp;turned Senate Democrats,&nbsp;who were supposed to approve the spending package this week,&nbsp;unanimously against the spending bill for the Department of Homeland Security, which includes&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;and which&nbsp;is included&nbsp;within the appropriations package passed by the House last week. But&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not as easy as splitting off the&nbsp;Homeland&nbsp;Security bill and passing the other five. If the Senate changes anything about the package, it&nbsp;has to&nbsp;go back to the&nbsp;House, which, as I mentioned,&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;even in town this week. So where are we?&nbsp;And how likely is it that&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to look at a partial government shutdown&nbsp;come&nbsp;Saturday?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;really a mess right now. You have&nbsp;some&nbsp;in both parties who are calling for passing the rest of the bills and pulling out the&nbsp;Homeland&nbsp;Security funding to keep negotiating.&nbsp;Some&nbsp;people are saying they should do a very short-term CR&nbsp;[continuing resolution]&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;a week, a couple&nbsp;weeks&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;in order to&nbsp;give Congress more time to negotiate these reforms and restrictions that Democrats are demanding. But then you have House&nbsp;Republicans who are saying,&nbsp;<em>Oh, if&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;opening this all back up again, we have&nbsp;some&nbsp;demands,&nbsp;too, and we want more of this and more of that and XYZ<\/em>. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;saying,&nbsp;<em>We\u2019re&nbsp;gonna&nbsp;defund all sanctuary cities<\/em>.&nbsp;So, like you said, once you open this back up, it&nbsp;opens up&nbsp;a whole&nbsp;can of worms. That said,&nbsp;the Democrats\u2019&nbsp;base is really saying&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;give one penny more to this agency that they see as completely running amok and violating life and civil liberties. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;really at&nbsp;kind of an&nbsp;impasse right now.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;This is a classic&nbsp;never-count-your-chickens in Congress. Maya, you want to add something.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I was going to&nbsp;say,&nbsp;it seems like the health&nbsp;care package is collateral damage here, right?&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;agreement, bipartisan agreement, that these changes that&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;trying to make, PBM&nbsp;[pharmacy benefit manager]&nbsp;changes, things like that,&nbsp;should&nbsp;be passed. But then, like you said, Julie,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;never over till&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;over, and more time between getting a bill negotiated and&nbsp;actually passing&nbsp;it just gives interest groups more time to get things changed. So that will be interesting to see.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And just a reminder for those who aren\u2019t following this as closely as we are, there is this health package that\u2019s riding along in this spending-bill package that includes the PBM reform and extensions for things like home health care and telehealth and other things that are not technically spending-bill issues but that need to be renewed periodically by Congress. So&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;also sitting out there waiting to see what the Senate decides to do and then what the House decides to do,&nbsp;depending on what the Senate decides to do.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Roubein:<\/strong>&nbsp;And the last government shutdown,&nbsp;in the fall,&nbsp;was&nbsp;based on health care. But as you mentioned, the fight was over Affordable Care Act subsidies, which is not part of this package that Julie mentioned.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;right. So that will continue. But I want to talk about&nbsp;ICE. We have tiptoed into the immigration debate as it&nbsp;impacts&nbsp;health&nbsp;care in recent months, but now&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;really front and center, and&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;talking about more than just the fight over ICE&nbsp;tactics in Minnesota and blocking the spending bill for the entire Department of Health and Human Services. Maya,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.axios.com\/2026\/01\/27\/trump-ice-minnesota-deportations-hospitals\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">you have a story<\/a>&nbsp;about how&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;presence&nbsp;in hospitals and other health&nbsp;care facilities is having an impact on patient care. Tell us what you found.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;physicians and nurses in Minneapolis, Twin Cities,&nbsp;and also&nbsp;across the country are saying that this is approaching, or has already&nbsp;become,&nbsp;a public health crisis. And the problem is twofold. It\u2019s,&nbsp;Part&nbsp;1, patients&nbsp;aren\u2019t&nbsp;coming to get the care that they need, because&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;worried about leaving their homes. And one doctor during a press conference said she&nbsp;even has patients who&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;want to take telehealth appointments,&nbsp;because&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;afraid of getting on the phone or getting on the computer,&nbsp;because&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;worried&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;being surveilled. So&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;a huge problem. And then&nbsp;some&nbsp;doctors are also saying that&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;presence in and around hospitals is making it harder for them to do their jobs of providing care, because there are reports of agents being aggressive and sort of being in places where they are not supposed to be, or are&nbsp;physically impeding care.&nbsp;So&nbsp;two sides of the coin.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;a reminder that&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;was&nbsp;largely forbidden&nbsp;from&nbsp;operating&nbsp;in, quote,&nbsp;\u201csensitive\u201d&nbsp;areas like schools and churches and health facilities,&nbsp;in both Republican and Democratic administrations, until&nbsp;[President Donald&nbsp;Trump]&nbsp;changed it last January.&nbsp;We\u2019ve&nbsp;heard&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;since then about&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;being in&nbsp;all of&nbsp;these sensitive locations, right?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;yeah. And I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;important to&nbsp;note&nbsp;the Department of Homeland Security, when I reached out to them, said that they are not conducting enforcement operations in hospitals, even though they&nbsp;are now allowed&nbsp;to. If they take a patient&nbsp;who\u2019s&nbsp;in custody&nbsp;to&nbsp;the hospital, they are in the hospital. They can get a warrant to come into the hospital. They can be in public spaces like parking lots and waiting rooms, waiting for people.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And as&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;hearing,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;exactly what&nbsp;they\u2019ve&nbsp;been doing.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Even though&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not, quote-unquote,&nbsp;\u201cconducting enforcement operations\u201d&nbsp;there.&nbsp;Doesn\u2019t&nbsp;mean&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not there. So even the American Medical Association, not exactly a left-wing group, issued a statement expressing concern about&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;activity in and around hospital emergency rooms, which it called a,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201ctactic&nbsp;fueling fear among patients and hospital staff alike.\u201d&nbsp;Are we starting to turn a corner here? I feel like this is,&nbsp;maybe it&nbsp;was a combination of what happened last week,&nbsp;coincided with the big snowstorm in half the country and people were stuck inside watching TV. I do feel like there\u2019s way more awareness than there was even two or three weeks ago of this stuff.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;I think it&nbsp;remains to&nbsp;be seen&nbsp;whether there is&nbsp;a meaningful policy and&nbsp;practice&nbsp;change or just a sort of symbolic or rhetorical change.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a different tone&nbsp;being struck.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;sort of backpedaling&nbsp;on&nbsp;the immediate reaction from government officials we heard,&nbsp;which was to blame the people who&nbsp;were killed&nbsp;for their own killings. There are calls for investigations coming from both sides of the aisle. There are calls for&nbsp;some&nbsp;top officials\u2019&nbsp;resignations. But again,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;hearing from people on the ground that things have not actually shifted in the enforcement behavior of these agents. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I think it&nbsp;really remains to&nbsp;be seen&nbsp;what happens in Congress in terms of passing policies. There\u2019s discussion of putting limitations in the spending bill on what&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;can do. But again, there is a lot of concern that I\u2019ve heard from the advocacy community that they\u2019re going to set up some government official&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;whether it\u2019s&nbsp;[Homeland Security Secretary]&nbsp;Kristi Noem&nbsp;or&nbsp;[Trump deputy chief of staff]&nbsp;Stephen Miller or,&nbsp;already we\u2019ve seen&nbsp;[Border Patrol official&nbsp;Gregory]&nbsp;Bovino&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;to be a fall guy&nbsp;and then nothing will actually change substantially beyond that. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;there\u2019s continued anxiety around that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, and&nbsp;just a reminder that even if the spending bill&nbsp;doesn\u2019t,&nbsp;for the Department of Homeland Security,&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;pass and they&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;even&nbsp;do&nbsp;a continuing resolution,&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;has&nbsp;I believe&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;$75 billion&nbsp;from the budget bill that passed last year.&nbsp;So&nbsp;they have&nbsp;a big chunk&nbsp;of money to keep&nbsp;operating&nbsp;regardless.&nbsp;Talk about collateral damage&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;it would be&nbsp;all of&nbsp;these other agencies that would have to sort of stop operating if there is&nbsp;some kind of a&nbsp;shutdown.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, meanwhile,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;going after the state of Minnesota. The Centers for Medicare&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;Medicaid Services earlier this month cut off a chunk of the state\u2019s Medicaid funding&nbsp;going forward.&nbsp;They\u2019re&nbsp;charging that the state is, quote,&nbsp;\u201coperating its program in substantial noncompliance\u201d&nbsp;with rules to detect waste, fraud,&nbsp;and abuse. This is not how this is supposed to work. CMS can sanction states for their anti-fraud efforts being lacking, but&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;supposed to be&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;due process first, with&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;hearings and&nbsp;appeals and fact-finding and all kinds of&nbsp;mumbo jumbo that we do go through before people&nbsp;actually get&nbsp;sanctioned.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;apparently not&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;happening here. Although the&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;headlines are overshadowing the other punitive measures the&nbsp;federal government is taking toward Minnesota,&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;kind of surprised&nbsp;this aspect of the story&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;getting more attention. Might it when other governors realize that this could happen to them,&nbsp;too, even if they&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;happen to be on the ballot against Trump in the last election, like Minnesota Gov. [Tim]&nbsp;Walz&nbsp;was?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I was talking to somebody in the Medicaid space from a different blue state who was&nbsp;saying this feels like a turning point, something that they&nbsp;are scared&nbsp;of&nbsp;happening&nbsp;in their state as well.&nbsp;And,&nbsp;yeah,&nbsp;I think there&nbsp;are&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;things that we need to see how they\u2019ll play out, but this is&nbsp;definitely raising&nbsp;eyebrows.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, and I will post in the show notes&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/ccf.georgetown.edu\/2026\/01\/16\/cms-weaponizes-fraud-against-medicaid-in-minnesota\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">a link to a piece<\/a>&nbsp;by Andy Schneider&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;who\u2019s at Georgetown University and&nbsp;who&nbsp;wrote, when he worked on the Hill, wrote a lot of the Medicaid statute&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;explaining how this is all supposed to work and quite how different this is. But I would expect to be hearing more about this in the coming days and weeks, particularly if the administration&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;back off, because&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;money and,&nbsp;as we know, Medicaid is a huge, huge piece of every single&nbsp;state\u2019s&nbsp;budget.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, meanwhile, on the abortion front, last week was the annual March for Life, marking the anniversary of the now overturned Supreme Court decision&nbsp;<em>Roe v.&nbsp;Wade<\/em>, and it\u2019s fair to say that the anti-abortion movement is not happy with the Trump administration\u2019s actions so far on the issue. Let\u2019s start with what the administration did do to prove its devotion to the anti-abortion cause, To mark the movement\u2019s big day in D.C., the Department of Health and Human Services reinstated its first-Trump-term ban on the use of fetal tissue in biomedical research, which President&nbsp;[Joe]&nbsp;Biden had reversed, and it expanded pretty dramatically the so-called Mexico&nbsp;City&nbsp;Policy that bans&nbsp;U.S.&nbsp;funding for international groups that, quote,&nbsp;\u201cperform\u201d&nbsp;or&nbsp;\u201cpromote\u201d&nbsp;abortion. Now things like&nbsp;DEI [diversity, equality, and inclusion]&nbsp;and gender-affirming care&nbsp;are included,&nbsp;too. Alice and Rachel,&nbsp;you guys&nbsp;cover this. What should we know about these two new policies? It&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;seem like&nbsp;much,&nbsp;because they had both been in effect before, but&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;pretty big.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;the fetal tissue ban is also,&nbsp;research, is also an expansion of the first-term version, just like the Mexico City Policy. It goes further than before. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;the&nbsp;new version&nbsp;bans not only in-house government research but also government funding of research at outside institutions that use fetal tissue that&nbsp;was donated&nbsp;from abortions,&nbsp;and that has&nbsp;been used&nbsp;in&nbsp;all kinds of&nbsp;really important&nbsp;medical research,&nbsp;development&nbsp;of&nbsp;vaccines,&nbsp;etc.&nbsp;And&nbsp;so&nbsp;there is&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;concern about that. They also imposed new restrictions on accepting new stem cell lines.&nbsp;There are&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;existing stem cell lines that they just keep propagating&nbsp;over and over&nbsp;from a long time ago, but&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;pausing&nbsp;accepting new ones while,&nbsp;they say,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;exploring&nbsp;alternatives that they find more ethical. All of this has really rattled the research community.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And as for the Mexico City Policy, the expansion there is far beyond the issue of abortion.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;banning funding going to groups that promote what they consider&nbsp;DEI&nbsp;and what they consider&nbsp;gender ideology. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;this is groups that serve&nbsp;the trans community in other countries and have programs for specific marginalized groups. So again,&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;concern in&nbsp;the&nbsp;public health world&nbsp;because&nbsp;in order to&nbsp;tackle big public health problems, you often need to direct resources to the communities most at risk, and often that is the trans community, that is racial minorities. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a fear of this really impeding the delivery of services in a way that will&nbsp;impact&nbsp;the broader population.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;All right, so now to what the administration&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;do that makes the anti-abortion movement so unhappy&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;anything further to restrict the abortion pill mifepristone. In fact, as expected, the Justice Department filed its brief in a closely watched lawsuit out of Louisiana this week, urging the court to pause the suit while the FDA&nbsp;[Food and Drug Administration]&nbsp;finishes its study of mifepristone, a study that abortion opponents say is the FDA purposely using to drag its feet on any action.&nbsp;So&nbsp;what the heck&nbsp;is going on here? Rachel, you start.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Roubein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;basically the&nbsp;Department of Justice&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/01\/27\/trump-asks-federal-court-to-hit-pause-on-abortion-pill-case-citing-ongoing-study-00750658\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">asked for a stay<\/a>&nbsp;in this lawsuit in Louisiana, and&nbsp;basically their&nbsp;justification was that:&nbsp;<em>The Food and Drug Administration is reviewing mifepristone. We need time to do that.<\/em>&nbsp;So that was&nbsp;basically&nbsp;what&nbsp;their&nbsp;ask&nbsp;was, was,&nbsp;like:&nbsp;<em>Put this on pause. We will do this review<\/em>&nbsp;that, as you said, anti-abortion advocates have been upset and said that it has been moving too slowly.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;So I really saw the&nbsp;legal&nbsp;brief was kind of a Rorschach test that people could see different things and signs in it, because you had the pro-abortion-rights community looking at them saying:&nbsp;<em>Look, they\u2019re saying that the FDA didn\u2019t properly review this in the past, and that\u2019s why they\u2019re doing this rigorous review now.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;a sign that&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to impose restrictions.<\/em>&nbsp;Also, the anti-abortion side looked at&nbsp;it&nbsp;and they were upset, one,&nbsp;that the Justice Department is arguing that the FDA allowing telemedicine&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;harm the states, and the&nbsp;states believe that it does, and so&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;saying:&nbsp;<em>You&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;prove harm. You&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;have&nbsp;standing&nbsp;to bring this case.<\/em>&nbsp;I think really the common theme in this filing and in&nbsp;some&nbsp;other&nbsp;ones&nbsp;last year&nbsp;related to these state abortion lawsuits is that the Trump administration is defending federal power and federal decision-making, and that can cut both ways. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;saying,&nbsp;<em>Leave it to us<\/em>. And the anti-abortion groups are saying:&nbsp;<em>We&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;trust you. We&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;want to leave it&nbsp;to&nbsp;you. We want to let these state lawsuits move forward.<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just to very quickly go back,&nbsp;the Trump administration did one other thing around the&nbsp;March for&nbsp;Life as a bone to the anti-abortion community,&nbsp;throwing them a bone, and that is they are attempting to claw back&nbsp;tens&nbsp;of millions of dollars in covid loans that went to Planned Parenthood affiliates.&nbsp;A lot of&nbsp;these loans&nbsp;were already forgiven&nbsp;by the Biden administration, but they are trying anyways to claim there was fraud going on and to get their money back. This boils down to&nbsp;sort of wonky&nbsp;arguments of whether the specific state Planned Parenthood chapters&nbsp;are considered&nbsp;enough part of&nbsp;national Planned Parenthood that they&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;claim to be a small business. This is going to&nbsp;be a legal fight. Planned Parenthood&nbsp;maintains&nbsp;they did absolutely nothing wrong. The state affiliates are separate from the national group, but\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Which they&nbsp;are, by the way.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;They are. They are. And courts have found that they&nbsp;are&nbsp;in the past. However, the anti-abortion movement was&nbsp;very&nbsp;excited&nbsp;about this. They see it as the first step towards declaring all&nbsp;Planned&nbsp;Parenthoods ineligible for any government funding,&nbsp;something&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;calling debarment, which&nbsp;they\u2019ve&nbsp;been pushing for&nbsp;for&nbsp;a while. So&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;one other thing to keep an eye on.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And a reminder,&nbsp;many,&nbsp;many&nbsp;Planned&nbsp;Parenthoods&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;and never have offered abortion.&nbsp;Well&nbsp;we&nbsp;won\u2019t&nbsp;get as far into the weeds as we could here, but if you press me, I will.&nbsp;All right,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to take a quick break. We will be right back.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So over at the Department of Health and Human Services, we have yet another mysterious case of stopping funding and then almost&nbsp;immediately&nbsp;restarting it. Earlier this month, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration cut off&nbsp;nearly&nbsp;$2 billion&nbsp;worth of grants to drug abuse and mental health providers, only to reverse that decision a day later. Now,&nbsp;nearly&nbsp;the&nbsp;same thing has&nbsp;basically happened&nbsp;with about&nbsp;$5 billion&nbsp;worth of grants from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to all 50 state health departments for things like community outreach, emergency preparedness,&nbsp;and disease outbreaks. According to The Washington Post, which broke&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/health\/2026\/01\/24\/public-health-trump-kennedy-cdc\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">the story<\/a>, notices to states were sent out Friday and barely 12 hours later, an HHS official told the&nbsp;Post the funding pause,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201chad been lifted.\u201d&nbsp;Still, it&nbsp;apparently took&nbsp;several&nbsp;more days for states to be able to access their funding portals. You&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;help but think that at least&nbsp;some of&nbsp;this is an actual effort to destabilize the nation\u2019s public health infrastructure, right?&nbsp;They&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;be that sort of disorganized that&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to cut off funding and put it back.&nbsp;There&nbsp;has to&nbsp;be a reason here.&nbsp;Rachel,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;smiling.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Roubein:<\/strong>&nbsp;My colleague Lena&nbsp;Sun&nbsp;and I were hearing about this on Saturday, ahead of the&nbsp;big storm. State officials were trying to kind of figure out&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;going on.&nbsp;With the mental health grants, you saw&nbsp;a very kind&nbsp;of concerted push from the advocacy community, from Republicans and Democrats on the Hill,&nbsp;to push for,&nbsp;that was a termination of those grants,&nbsp;to&nbsp;be rescinded, and they were within about a day. This happened&nbsp;sort of over&nbsp;the weekend, and it happened very quickly. So, I&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;say what the result of&nbsp;sort of the&nbsp;change was,&nbsp;because the notices&nbsp;were dated&nbsp;Friday, but state officials&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;really start getting them&nbsp;till&nbsp;on&nbsp;Saturday. And then&nbsp;we\u2019d&nbsp;heard sort of midday Saturday that the temporary pause&nbsp;was lifted. But&nbsp;it&nbsp;definitely threw,&nbsp;sort of,&nbsp;state and local health departments that we were talking about into sort of a state of confusion trying to figure out sort of what they needed to do&nbsp;and&nbsp;by when.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, and we have seen this repeatedly from this administration.&nbsp;These are sort of two dramatic cases just this month, but the stopping and starting of grant funding is making it impossible to do any planning and figure out what you can do when.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;just, it feels like just a matter of,&nbsp;<em>Let\u2019s&nbsp;make it as hard as possible for these people to do their jobs.<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, and\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;By&nbsp;\u201cthese,\u201d&nbsp;yeah,&nbsp;I\u2019d&nbsp;say by&nbsp;\u201cthese people\u201d&nbsp;I mean the grant recipients, not the people who are overseeing the money.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;I&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;claim to know exactly&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;going on behind the scenes, but I think,&nbsp;what do you expect to happen when you gut&nbsp;all of&nbsp;the administrative functions of these agencies, which is what HHS did earlier this year?&nbsp;And of course,&nbsp;some of&nbsp;those people have come back, but&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;instability in HHS\u2019&nbsp;rank-and-file workforce itself, and so that naturally will trickle down to their grantees.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right, and particularly at the CDC. Well, adding to that,&nbsp;elsewhere at the CDC,&nbsp;some&nbsp;key databases, mostly concerning vaccines, are not&nbsp;being updated.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;according to&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.acpjournals.org\/doi\/10.7326\/ANNALS-25-04022\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">a study<\/a>&nbsp;in this week\u2019s Annals of Internal Medicine&nbsp;medical&nbsp;journal. The study found what the authors called&nbsp;\u201cunexplained pauses\u201d&nbsp;in&nbsp;nearly half&nbsp;of the 82 databases they studied that&nbsp;are normally updated&nbsp;monthly.&nbsp;Eighty-seven percent&nbsp;of those databases were on vaccination-related topics. Now,&nbsp;this could be political. It could also be due, as Maya was just saying,&nbsp;to the&nbsp;budget and personnel cuts at CDC that&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;talked about so much over the past year. But it does seem that&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;continuing to fly ever more blind on things like disease surveillance, right?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, and then when you couple that with the state and local public health divisions are the ones who would be the backstop there, but if their funding is in question&nbsp;now, that is even more concerning for public health surveillance.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, and of course, we are in the middle of big measles outbreaks in South Carolina and Texas and trying to watch that closely, but&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;hard to do if you only have&nbsp;sort of state-by-state&nbsp;backups to look at.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right.&nbsp;Well, before we go, we need to talk about the Affordable Care Act. Remember the Affordable Care Act?&nbsp;Before it&nbsp;was subsumed&nbsp;by all the other headlines?&nbsp;Apparently, the&nbsp;Senate is still working on a bipartisan compromise that could restart lapsed subsidies that have spiked health insurance premiums for millions of Americans. And&nbsp;apparently things&nbsp;aren\u2019t&nbsp;going all that well. And to add to it,&nbsp;here\u2019s&nbsp;the headline on the press release for&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kff.org\/public-opinion\/kff-health-tracking-poll-health-care-costs-expiring-aca-tax-credits-and-the-2026-midterms\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">the latest&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;poll<\/a>,&nbsp;hot off the presses just this morning&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kff.org\/public-opinion\/health-care-costs-tops-the-publics-economic-worries-as-the-runup-to-the-midterms-begins-independent-voters-are-more-likely-to-trust-democrats-than-republicans-on-the-issue\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Health&nbsp;Care&nbsp;Costs&nbsp;Tops&nbsp;the&nbsp;Public\u2019s&nbsp;Economic&nbsp;Worries&nbsp;as the&nbsp;Runup to the&nbsp;Midterms&nbsp;Begin;&nbsp;Independent&nbsp;Voters&nbsp;Are&nbsp;More&nbsp;Likely to&nbsp;Trust Democrats than Republicans on the&nbsp;Issue<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;On the other hand, the poll did find that Republicans still trust Republicans more. And while the ACA&nbsp;remains&nbsp;pretty popular&nbsp;overall, it is less popular with Republicans than it was before last fall\u2019s campaign by Republicans to blame&nbsp;all of&nbsp;the health care system\u2019s ills on the 2010 health law. So where does that leave us?&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;with&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;this is the end of January. People who have been&nbsp;sort of reenrolled&nbsp;in the ACA are starting to get these huge premium notices that they may or may not be able to pay. Has Congress just&nbsp;kind of moved&nbsp;onto the next crisis?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;So&nbsp;some&nbsp;people in Congress are still trying to resolve this crisis, even as new crises pile up. The bipartisan talks are still going on, but there is just not&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;optimism here. There is not really&nbsp;agreement&nbsp;on&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;aspects of extending the subsidies, and all of this is really discussing, at most,&nbsp;sort of a&nbsp;one-year extension. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;they would just have to have this whole fight all over again. But yes, I would say things are looking&nbsp;more bleak&nbsp;on that front than even&nbsp;a few&nbsp;weeks ago.&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know what my fellow panelists think.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;any anybody&nbsp;have&nbsp;optimism for getting these subsidies extended?&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not seeing anybody raising their&nbsp;hand. Well,&nbsp;we will continue, obviously, to watch this space.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right. Lastly, health insurers are starting to get the same heartburn as the pharmaceutical industry.&nbsp;Last week,&nbsp;in back-to-back hearings at the House Energy and Commerce and Ways and Means committees, the heads of five of the biggest health insurers got&nbsp;pretty much&nbsp;filleted&nbsp;by&nbsp;members of both parties. Then this week, the Trump administration&nbsp;kind of shocked&nbsp;the markets by offering a much-smaller-than-expected increase for private Medicare Advantage plans. Those have been the darlings of Republicans for a couple of decades&nbsp;now. Maybe Republicans do really mean it when they say they want to stop giving so much taxpayer money to health insurers?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;I was a little bit struck by how surprised everybody was at&nbsp;this, because&nbsp;I think&nbsp;[CMS Administrator]&nbsp;Dr.&nbsp;Mehmet&nbsp;Oz has been hinting that he\u2019s much more amenable to cracking down on reported improper behavior among Medicare Advantage plans than people anticipated the next Trump administration would be.&nbsp;And&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;really this groundswell in the House of Representatives as well among Republicans to sort of rein in improper spending&nbsp;in&nbsp;Medicare Advantage.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Sen.&nbsp;Bill Cassidy has been pretty\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;\u2014outspoken on it, which surprised&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;people. Now&nbsp;his,&nbsp;the committee that&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;the&nbsp;chairman&nbsp;of&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;have&nbsp;jurisdiction&nbsp;over this, but he is also a member of the&nbsp;Finance&nbsp;Committee,&nbsp;which does have&nbsp;jurisdiction&nbsp;over this.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly. Exactly. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;to me it&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;that surprising,&nbsp;I have to say.&nbsp;But&nbsp;it sent&nbsp;shock&nbsp;waves through the markets?&nbsp;Obviously, insurers are saying that if this&nbsp;is&nbsp;finalized&nbsp;as proposed,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to have to cut benefits for seniors even&nbsp;more,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to have to raise premiums and things like that. And of course this could be a bad political move,&nbsp;potentially,&nbsp;for Republicans. But&nbsp;I think\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Because there are&nbsp;lots of&nbsp;Republican voters who are in Medicare Advantage plans\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Absolutely.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;\u2014and&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;want to&nbsp;see their benefits cut.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Absolutely,&nbsp;and Medicare Advantage insurers have been saying this&nbsp;over and over again.&nbsp;The Biden administration was also&nbsp;pretty conservative&nbsp;on Medicare Advantage.&nbsp;I guess maybe&nbsp;\u201cconservative\u201d&nbsp;is a funny word choice, but\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Light-handed.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Were light-handed.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes,&nbsp;I think, and&nbsp;insurers were&nbsp;largely able&nbsp;to weather that. Of course, there are&nbsp;some&nbsp;changes that&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;making this year.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;seeing&nbsp;some&nbsp;market realignment.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it, another year of that, who knows what would happen.&nbsp;But&nbsp;I think it&nbsp;still remains&nbsp;to&nbsp;be seen&nbsp;how impactful this will&nbsp;actually be&nbsp;for beneficiaries.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, well, another constituency to&nbsp;get riled&nbsp;up in the run-up to the midterms. All right, that is this week\u2019s news. Now&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;time for our&nbsp;extra-credit&nbsp;segment.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;where we each recognize the story we read this&nbsp;week&nbsp;we think that you should read,&nbsp;too.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;worry if you miss it.&nbsp;We\u2019ll&nbsp;post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Alice, why don\u2019t you start us off this week?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I have this fascinating investigation from&nbsp;The New York Times. The headline is&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/01\/27\/us\/politics\/after-donations-trump-administration-revoked-rule-requiring-more-nursing-home-staff.html?unlocked_article_code=1.HlA.LWpF.vrt019HUzWKq&amp;smid=url-share\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">After&nbsp;Donations, Trump&nbsp;Administration Revoked Rule Requiring More Nursing Home Staff<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;So&nbsp;this is a story about these nursing home industry groups making massive donations to Trump\u2019s super PAC and,&nbsp;after that, gaining&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;access to him and using that access to lobby for the scrapping of a rule that required minimum staffing in&nbsp;nursing homes. And that rule was already not really&nbsp;being enforced, but now they are getting rid of it formally. And so I think the story does a good job of saying,&nbsp;<em>Look, we can\u2019t prove exactly that they got rid of this rule because of the donations, but it is part of a pattern where people who have given a lot of money to the&nbsp;president\u2019s various groups have gotten just an incredible amount of access to him and other top officials.<\/em>&nbsp;And the story also stresses&nbsp;why we should care about all of this.&nbsp;There\u2019s just been a lot of horrific data coming out of nursing homes of problems caused by understaffing,&nbsp;patients&nbsp;experiencing preventable injuries, infections and other health problems that go unnoticed until it\u2019s too late or it gets way more serious, and even facilities using, basically drugging patients to keep them&nbsp;easy to control and complacent,&nbsp;because there just isn\u2019t enough staff to attend to them.&nbsp;People who have dementia and other things&nbsp;need&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;care and can get&nbsp;upset and disoriented.&nbsp;And instead of taking care of them,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;putting&nbsp;them&nbsp;on heavy&nbsp;psychotropic drugs. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it\u2019s a&nbsp;really sad&nbsp;and serious situation, and this article shows&nbsp;some&nbsp;potential pay to play.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, I tend to be, in general, skeptical of administrations doing things that we thought they were going to do&nbsp;anyway&nbsp;and someone else happened to give them money.&nbsp;But this draws a pretty clear line.&nbsp;They did do what they were going to do anyway, which was going to&nbsp;sort of not&nbsp;really enforce these regulations.&nbsp;Anyway&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;really&nbsp;good story.&nbsp;Should&nbsp;read it. Maya.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;My&nbsp;extra credit this week is&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nbcnews.com\/health\/health-news\/aca-obamacare-enrollment-bronze-cheapest-plans-premiums-rcna255616\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Many Obamacare&nbsp;Enrollees&nbsp;Have&nbsp;Switched to&nbsp;Cheaper Bronze&nbsp;Plans. Here\u2019s&nbsp;Why&nbsp;That&nbsp;Could&nbsp;Be&nbsp;Risky<\/a>,\u201don NBC News by Berkeley Lovelace Jr. And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;one of those stories that, wow, I wish I had written this. It\u2019s a really great explanation of one of the sort of lesser-talked-about side effects of losing enhanced ACA subsidies, which is that people are going into plans that are&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;they\u2019re still opting to be in insurance, but they\u2019re taking plans that are lower premiums but much higher deductibles, which means that their coverage is less valuable. And they might still have to pay&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;money out-of-pocket for most services, and then they might not seek those services, which&nbsp;sort of negates&nbsp;the purpose of having health insurance and its effect on public health. And this story shows that Kentucky, Idaho, Massachusetts, New York, Virginia, Rhode Island, California are all seeing decreases in&nbsp;\u201csilver\u201d&nbsp;plan enrollment, which is&nbsp;sort of that&nbsp;lower-deductible, higher-premium tier, and increases in&nbsp;\u201cbronze\u201d&nbsp;enrollment, which is super-high-deductible.&nbsp;So&nbsp;huge thing to watch.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Really,&nbsp;really good&nbsp;explanation.&nbsp;Rachel.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Roubein:<\/strong>&nbsp;My extra credit is by&nbsp;Stat&nbsp;News. The headline is&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/2026\/01\/28\/kennedy-names-new-autism-advisors-advocates-alarmed-vaccine-skeptics\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">HHS&nbsp;Appoints 21&nbsp;New Members to a Federal Autism Advisory Committee<\/a>,\u201d&nbsp;by O.&nbsp;Rose Broderick. And the story lays out how the Department of Health and Human Services yesterday, on Wednesday, announced the appointment of new members to a federal committee that will advise Secretary&nbsp;[Robert&nbsp;F.]&nbsp;Kennedy&nbsp;[Jr.]&nbsp;on autism.&nbsp;Broderick&nbsp;reports that&nbsp;many&nbsp;of the new members of the committee, which&nbsp;is called&nbsp;the&nbsp;Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee, have publicly expressed or belonged to groups that have publicly expressed a belief in the debunked claim that vaccines can cause autism. Stat had&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/2026\/01\/23\/kennedy-autism-advisors-new-panel-members-selection-lacks-transparency\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">also reported<\/a>&nbsp;earlier this week that the members of the committee had met in secret and that some members of the kind of broader autism community were worried about the panel.&nbsp;And just kind of for sort of the big-picture point of view, Kennedy, last year, pledged to find the causes of autism. And during his tenure as HHS&nbsp;secretary,&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;challenged years of public health messaging on vaccines, such as instructing the CDC to contradict the long-settled scientific conclusion that vaccines do not cause autism. Kennedy, in a press release&nbsp;yesterday, called the researchers&nbsp;\u201cthe most qualified experts&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;leaders with decades of experience studying, researching,&nbsp;and treating autism.\u201d&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yet another piece of this.&nbsp;There\u2019s&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;of&nbsp;advisory committees at HHS, and there are&nbsp;many&nbsp;of them worth keeping a close eye on. All right, my extra credit this week is from&nbsp;Science&nbsp;magazine,&nbsp;by Monica&nbsp;Hersher&nbsp;and Jeffrey Mervis.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.science.org\/content\/article\/u-s-government-has-lost-more-10-000-stem-ph-d-s-trump-took-office?utm_source=sfmc&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_content=alert&amp;utm_campaign=DailyLatestNews&amp;et_rid=60658150&amp;et_cid=5859949\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">U.S.&nbsp;Government&nbsp;Has Lost More Than 10,000 Stem Ph.D.s Since&nbsp;Trump&nbsp;Took Office<\/a>,\u201d&nbsp;and it puts&nbsp;some actual numbers to the science brain drain that&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;been talking about. The authors looked at 14 agencies across the federal government, including the NIH&nbsp;[National Institutes of Health],&nbsp;FDA,&nbsp;and CDC at HHS. They noted that those 10,000-plus experts represented only 3% of the more than 300,000 federal workers&nbsp;who\u2019ve&nbsp;left employment since Trump took office, but they&nbsp;represent&nbsp;14% of the total number of&nbsp;Ph.D.s&nbsp;in science, technology, engineering, math,&nbsp;and health fields. Most&nbsp;quit&nbsp;or retired after taking buyouts rather than&nbsp;being fired, according to the data. But as the authors noted, quote,&nbsp;\u201cthese departing&nbsp;Ph.D.s&nbsp;took with them a wealth of subject matter expertise and knowledge about how these agencies operate.\u201d&nbsp;Certainly&nbsp;a win for the Trump administration, which wants to remake the federal government\u2019s approach to science. For the rest of us, we will have to wait and see.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>OK, that\u2019s this week\u2019s show.&nbsp;Before we go, a reminder that our annual&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;Policy Valentine contest is open. We want to see your clever, heartfelt,&nbsp;or hilarious tributes to the policies that shape health care.&nbsp;Submit your poem, whether conventional, free-form, or&nbsp;haiku, by noon Eastern on Wednesday, Feb.&nbsp;4. The winning poem will receive a custom comic illustration in the&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/morning-briefing\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Morning&nbsp;Briefing<\/a>&nbsp;on Feb.&nbsp;13.&nbsp;I will post a link to&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/health-policy-valentines-annual-contest\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">the formal announcement<\/a>&nbsp;in our show notes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As always, thanks to our editor,&nbsp;Emmarie Huetteman,&nbsp;and our producer-engineer,&nbsp;Francis Ying.&nbsp;A&nbsp;reminder:&nbsp;<em>What the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app,&nbsp;and wherever you get your podcasts, as well as, of course,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/health-policy-valentines-annual-contest\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">kffhealthnews.org<\/a>.&nbsp;Also, as always, you can email&nbsp;us&nbsp;your comments&nbsp;or questions.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:whatthehealth@kff.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">whatthehealth@kff.org<\/a>,&nbsp;or you can still find me on&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/jrovner\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@jrovner<\/a>,&nbsp;or on&nbsp;Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@julierovner<\/a>. Where are you folks these days?&nbsp;Maya?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Goldman:<\/strong>&nbsp;You can find me on&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/maya-goldman-680018154\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a>&nbsp;under my name or on&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/mayagoldman_\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@mayagoldman_<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Alice.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Still on&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/AliceOllstein\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@AliceOllstein<\/a>,&nbsp;and on&nbsp;Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/alicemiranda.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@alicemiranda<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Rachel.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Roubein:<\/strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/rachel-roubein-42016453\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a>&nbsp;under my name.&nbsp;Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/rachelroubein.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@rachelroubein<\/a>.&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rachel_roubein\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@rachel_roubein<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We will&nbsp;be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-credits block--credits\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"credits-title\">\n\t\tCredits\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"credits-card-container twowide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Francis Ying<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Audio producer<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Emmarie Huetteman <\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Editor <\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" \/>\n\n\n\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/our-podcasts\/\"><u>Click here to find all our podcasts.<\/u><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>And subscribe to &#8220;What the Health? From KFF Health News&#8221; on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/what-the-health\/id1253607372?mt=2\"><u>Apple Podcasts<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/32EdsB662C3oyIrqLMmBXI?si=TQhRjzzLTgWtK3crfbOFtA\"><u>Spotify<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/app.npr.org\/aggregation\/fis-1269164038\"><u>the NPR app<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PL5Qew-7pSXbAucCUQnyRx6qpLglzrxzFb\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/play.pocketcasts.com\/web\/podcasts\/a379e280-3f57-0135-9028-63f4b61a9224\"><u>Pocket Casts<\/u><\/a>, or wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The Trump administration\u2019s immigration crackdown is not just roiling politics but also directly affecting the provision of health care, medical groups say. 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